How you use plug-ins, compression, eq, bla bla, what you do

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musicsdarkangel

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Hey I always have trouble with my mixes, and I record them like I want them. Like that guy in the other thread, my vocals are always on the bottom or on the top.

I understnad you should eq, compress, etc...>BUT, how do you do that? I'm really bad with this stuff. What plugins do you all find useful? If you know any books that would help, or ANYTHING, it'd be greatly appreciated. I need to learn to use these things.

Also, please tell me how you guys usually eq/compress/mix and all.

Thanks!
 
How do I do it?...

Well, honestly.... I use my ears, and make it sound the way I want it to sound.. In the early days it was alot of trial and error, but Now I know my plug ins and outboard shit pretty good, and know how to achieve the sound I want to achieve...

I don't know what a compression ratio is.....But I know how to use the compressor and achieve the sounds I need......... I don't undertand rolling of -6 db on eq, but I know which way to turn the knobs to achieve the sound I need...... I don't know frequencies..... I can't listen to a bass and know where it's sitting frequency wise.., but why the fuck would anyone want to know that anyways:D

Im told around here, and in real life that my stuff sounds pretty professional, so I must be doing something right..

It's just knowing what you want, and finding a way to get it with what you have.
 
VOX, very well put, man. Chess has a good point too, but I think your ears are the most important tools you could use.

One think I'd like to add though, is to compare, compare, compare your mixes to other professionally mixed CD's. This helps me find the starting point of where I want my mix to go. I have used spectral analyzers to find problems I can't get past using my ears alone. I've even used some of the "cheater" boilerplate articles in Electronic Musician mag as a starting point (not proud of it), but the best mixes I've done have been by 1) get a starting point my making my mix sound like a store-bought CD (of similar music style & instrumentation), then 2) Let my ears take over.
 
Seanmorse79 said:
I've even used some of the "cheater" boilerplate articles in Electronic Musician mag as a starting point (not proud of it)
Click to expand...

What are these "cheater" boilerplate articles you speak of? I don't subscribe to Electronic Musician. Please tell me more...
 
i've had a subscription to recording magazine for the past 2-3 years, and the things that i have read have either taught or reinforced some good things about acoustic space, mic placement, recording, dynamics processing and mixing.

in addition, i've gleaned so much information from web pages like Sound on Sound.

finally, i've learned and argued about so many topics on this web site.

i would have to say that i've learned more from this web site and the trial and error that results from the things that i have read from both the right people and the regurgitators.

this is what i've learned most:

when i was learning to play the guitar, i learned to play by ear, but it wasn't until i learned music theory that my playing really blossomed because i understood the rules. i now feel the same way about recording, mixing, and mastering, which are 3 separate arts. develop your ears. while you are developing your ears get a spectrum analyst so that you can visually see what your ears are hearing.

ps. here's a good link:
http://www.studiocovers.com/articles.htm
 
There are a couple of articles (one in Electronic Musician, another in Recording Mag (I think - I'll look when I get home) that describe a "basic mix" or a "basic rock mix".

These are designed (and very strongly prefaced) to be just a starting point, outlining "usual" scenarios. I don't have them in front of me, but they provide a nice little step-by-step for a basic rock mix. They were extremely helpful when I was starting out because I didn't really know where to begin.

I don't think it'd be legal for me to scan and post them, but I'll look them up and post the Magazine / Issue they were in if anybody's interested. Back issues are usually available.
 
thanks that would be very helpful!!

Does anyone know the Frequencies for Guitars, Violin, Drums, Bass, Vocals?

(generally speaking).

I wanna start eqing better. I do it by ear, but I wanna somewhat know what i'm doing.
 
I saw this in another thread and it looked like a good srating point:

do a search for

"EQ Primer"

JG
 
for musicdarkangel,

Here's the frequency range for most instuments. Remenber these are the fundamental harmonics of the instruments. I have also rounded them off as you don't really need decimal point accuracy - for example, guitar 80Hz (really 82.41Hz) and it's easier to remember the rough frequency range.

Piano (concert) 27Hz - 4kHz
Bass Tuba 40Hz- 350 Hz
Double Bass 40Hz - 250Hz
Cello 65Hz - 990Hz
Viola 130Hz -1.2kHz
Violin 196Hz - 3.2kHz
Clarinet 165Hz - 1.6kHz
Flute 260Hz - 3.4kHz
French horn 110Hz - 880Hz
Trombone 80Hz - 500Hz
Trumpet 165Hz - 990Hz
Guitar 80 - 880Hz
Bass Guitar 40Hz - 220Hz


Vocals:
Bass 85Hz - 350Hz
Baritone 98Hz - 400Hz
Tenor 130Hz - 500Hz
Contralto 130Hz - 700Hz
Soprano 245Hz- 1.2kHz
Castrato - doesn't exist anymore (thank God)


Drums are harder to define as they don't really convey a sense of pitch so here's the approximate frequency range of the loudest frequencies. I'm sure somebody will disagree!

Kick 30Hz - 600Hz
Snare 70Hz - 1.5kHz
Toms 50Hz - 1.2kHz
Cymbals 150Hz - 2kz

As mentioned above, these are the fundamental, or first harmonics, of the instruments, higher order harmonics are also present but, usually, not as loud as the fundamental.

If you don't know what I mean by the second harmonic, here's an example.

Bottom E string on my guitar has a fundamental frequency of (about) 80Hz.

The second harmonic is 160Hz (2 x 80Hz)
The third harmonic is 240 Hz (3 x 80Hz)
The fourth harmonic is 320Hz (4 x 80Hz)
and so on.

I hope this has been of some help.

Regards,

John
 
Great list. Thanks, John.
BTW, are you related to John Byrne, the famous comic book artist/writer?
He was born in England, but grew up in Canada I believe.
 
Hi, ChuckU,

All Byrne's are supposedly related as it is a family (clan) name that comes from the east coast of Ireland (Wicklow). So there should be some relation ship between John - the comic book artist, David - the Singer, Gabriel - the actor and me. Now if these people would only pass on some of their hard-earned cash to distant relatives..........

Regards,

John
 
Since you could write an encyclopedia on how to use compression and eq, (not to mention the blah-blah-blah) it wouldn't be a bad idea to do a search right here and reread some of the excellent posts already existing on the subject.

In general, there is nothing wrong with the idea of twisting and turning every knob and switch to try to hear exactly what happens.

But whatever your approach, you may want to think of the first step in applying compression and eq: DON'T.

Now I'm being a little facetious, but my point is, spend that same time you are devoting to randomly tweaking plug-in parameters instead trying to get a really good recorded sound WITHOUT the plug-ins. Try swapping mics around, and moving them to different positions relative to the recorded source. See if you can get a great sound without "help" from plug-ins. Then you can always use the plug-ins for fine tuning, and you won't be expecting them to work miracles.

Sometimes adding radical amounts of processing is a technique used to produce a specific idiosyncratic sound. But in general, if you are going for a "natural" sound, try using the minimum amount of processing that you can get away with. Just because you own a plug-in, doesn't mean you are required to use it on every track!
 
I'm in the same boat as these guys...

and I didn't understand a word of any of those replies... :p

All I wanna know is,.... is there a plug-in I can use with N-track to level out my vocals... they're always all over the place... one second they're too quiet, the next they're too loud.. I thought compressors were supposed to level out the signal so there were no "highs" and "lows".. (but what the hell do I know) so is there anything that will do this??? I mean.. if I gotta mess around with a plug-in until I get the right settings, then fine, but I've got aboot 6 thousand different "compressor" plug-ins and not a one of 'em will level out my vocals... :mad:

WATYF
 
Any decent compressor or compressor plug-in WILL level out your voice if you know how to use it. With 6000 choices, i imagine you ought to be able to find at least a couple that actually work.

For leveling you want a low threshold setting, reasonably fast attack and release, and the ratio will depend on the material - just how big a dynamic swing there is between the loudest and softest parts. A higher ratio will be needed to level material with a higher dynamic range.

Then you will have to use the make-up gain to raise the overall level of the track to where you want it to sit in the mix.

Let me know which words you didn't understand! :D
 
Read test & read some more.

As far as compression goes. The computer DAW is a wonderfull place to learn about it!! You can actually look at the sound waves and see what you ware doing. Duplicate the trac you want to work with and experiment. If your software has a good undo feature you can realy go wild. It helps to go to extremes at first so the changes you are making are very (how do you spell obvios?????) obvios. The book that came with cakewalk FX1 dynamic was actually very usefull to me. I had to read it 10 times:)
but like I said read, test, read, test.....

Compression could help you alot.

I usually boost around 2500hz on my Kick drum to get that tight punchy sound I want.. All I know is it works for me.


Later

F.S.
 
many thanks musicdarkangel,

WATYF1 - compessing the shit out of your vocals is the easiest and less satisfying way to go. Learn how to control the dynamics of the microphone (I assume when you say "level out my vocals", you are doing the singing). Please spend one day recording your own voice (the same amount of time it takes to mess around with a compressor) with the mic, or your head, in diiferent positions.

Live recordings are harder because there is always the on-stage/artistic factor and the singer never remembers what you told him/her during the sound check, assuming he/she needs guidance.

Studio is something else: nobody sees the pose, so it doesn't matter.

Mouth about six to eight inches from the mic,

Mic direct in line with the mouth - normal singing position

Mic stand as high as the top of the head with the mic pointed between the eyes - brings out the highs in a voice

Mic stand as high as the tits ('scuse me) mic pointed at the chin - brings out the bass.

Mic in line but withe the singer singing into the side of the mic (about 45 degrees) is bass emphasis.

Pull the head back and to the side is fade out, reversed is fade in.

This is mic technique and if you are recording someone with good technique, there is no need to compress.

I can't sing, but I still practice different mic placements/techniques at home on my own with different mics (SM57 - U64) to get a feeling of the sonic possiblities.

THIS IS THE SECRECT TO ALL GOOD RECORDING
(sorry for shouting!)

If you can understand the sonic capabilities of your mics, then you are half way to decent recordings.

Sod this, I'm off to the pub.

Regards,

John
 
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