How would you record a drum kit with this gear?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Vagodeoz
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Vagodeoz

Vagodeoz

One-Man-Band
I have to record some drums soon.
Well, the first decition is the question of the million dollars. Analog or digital?
For analog I have a Tascam 414 MKII, and for digital I have a M-Audio Delta 1010 Lt.
On digital I have 8 tracks, and on analog I have 4 but... well... it's analog! :D
Either way it's coming through my Behringer Xenyx 2442Fx Mixer

For mikes I have a SM58 (which I usually use for the kick), a SM57 (snare top), 4 x Behringer XM8500 (snare bottom and toms), and for condensers I have 2 x Behr. B2, 2 x C2 and 2 x Rode NT5, and a Ribbon mike, the Nady RSM-2.
I have the Small diaphragm condensers for overheads, but I have heard many people saying that for rock, LDCs are better, so I think I'll give by Behringer B2 a try this time, and one of the Rode for the Hi Hat.
For the room I used one of the B2 (when I was using the SDCs as overheads) but now they will be busy as overheads so I was thinking about giving my ribbon a try, since I have also read some people saying they use ribbons as room mikes.

I also have seen some bands recording live drums without the bass drum, and then adding a digital kick. I think in my case this would be a nice option, since I have a crappy kick, I don't have a kick mike and I'm not as good as I would like with double pedal (without counting my pedal is far from calibrated)

And for the room mike, I usually compress the hell out of it, to make it almost sustain and no attack, so it has a lot more reflections content. And I was thinking about plugging my room mike into my Art Tube MP, cranking the gain at maxium and using the limiter, so it has at least a little of built in compression. Especially helpfull if I'm going to bounce my drum set to only 4 tracks (in case I record with the Tascam). Or do you think I shouldn't do this and use the Tube pre-amp in another, more crucial track, like the kick or snare?

Oh, I almost forgot. I said on digital I have 8 tracks from my Delta 1010, but I also have a Sound Blaster X-Fi Platinum, and I have already recorded through both interfaces at once, so I can record each mike in it's own track (otherwise I would have to bounce the 10-11 tracks into 8). I also have the behringer 2 track USB interface but I don't know if it's A/D converters will be better than the Sound blaster's, since the SB costs about 260$ and the behringer 30$.
 
Vagodeoz said:
I have to record some drums soon.
Well, the first decition is the question of the million dollars. Analog or digital?
For analog I have a Tascam 414 MKII, and for digital I have a M-Audio Delta 1010 Lt.
On digital I have 8 tracks, and on analog I have 4 but... well... it's analog! :D
Either way it's coming through my Behringer Xenyx 2442Fx Mixer

For mikes I have a SM58 (which I usually use for the kick), a SM57 (snare top), 4 x Behringer XM8500 (snare bottom and toms), and for condensers I have 2 x Behr. B2, 2 x C2 and 2 x Rode NT5, and a Ribbon mike, the Nady RSM-2.
I have the Small diaphragm condensers for overheads, but I have heard many people saying that for rock, LDCs are better, so I think I'll give by Behringer B2 a try this time, and one of the Rode for the Hi Hat.
For the room I used one of the B2 (when I was using the SDCs as overheads) but now they will be busy as overheads so I was thinking about giving my ribbon a try, since I have also read some people saying they use ribbons as room mikes.

I also have seen some bands recording live drums without the bass drum, and then adding a digital kick. I think in my case this would be a nice option, since I have a crappy kick, I don't have a kick mike and I'm not as good as I would like with double pedal (without counting my pedal is far from calibrated)

And for the room mike, I usually compress the hell out of it, to make it almost sustain and no attack, so it has a lot more reflections content. And I was thinking about plugging my room mike into my Art Tube MP, cranking the gain at maxium and using the limiter, so it has at least a little of built in compression. Especially helpfull if I'm going to bounce my drum set to only 4 tracks (in case I record with the Tascam). Or do you think I shouldn't do this and use the Tube pre-amp in another, more crucial track, like the kick or snare?

Oh, I almost forgot. I said on digital I have 8 tracks from my Delta 1010, but I also have a Sound Blaster X-Fi Platinum, and I have already recorded through both interfaces at once, so I can record each mike in it's own track (otherwise I would have to bounce the 10-11 tracks into 8). I also have the behringer 2 track USB interface but I don't know if it's A/D converters will be better than the Sound blaster's, since the SB costs about 260$ and the behringer 30$.
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I don't know what to suggest, but i will say that you can get brilliant results with just 4 mics, kick, snare and overheads. Also, you might want to invest in a better mic and heads for your kick. I love the sound of a nicely tuned well miked kick, although it can be difficult to get at first.
 
Go digital. Those who dream of analog tape saturation dream of well-maintained quality reel-to-reel machines.... low-end casettes, not so much.
 
try the two NT5s as overheads. I've successfully used these, pointed over the drummer's shoulders and aimed at the snare.

I would then mike up the kick, and you might give the C2 a go. You could use the other c2 on snare if you need it.

You might find that three mikes will work ok. One on the snare makes four, and gives a bit more control over snare level.

I wouldn't worry about miking anything else.
 
i agree with gecko about the mic over the drummer's shoulder. i've even recorded with JUST that when that was the only thing available! also, i believe the rsm-2 would be great if you wanted to pick up ambient room sounds, depending on if you want the sound of your room in there :)
 
I'd rather have one good mic in a good room then 12 crappy mics in a living room.
 
close dynamics on drums, condensers as overheads (fairly high), condenser on hats, ribbon mic in doorway or in corridoor, another mic three or four feet in front of the kit at snare height.
 
protein said:
close dynamics on drums, condensers as overheads (fairly high), condenser on hats, ribbon mic in doorway or in corridoor, another mic three or four feet in front of the kit at snare height.
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Wow, you really need that many mics? :eek:
 
You do if you play metal, like I do :)
On metal it's pretty common to close mike everything. Overheads are usually used only as cymbal mikes, instead of providing an overall drum sound, since everything else is close miked.
I was also thinking about buying the Karma Micro Drum pack. 7 condensers with clips and case for 120$, including shipping to Bolivia. Not bad at all.
But everything I but from now on will be from slow savings. I just finished spending about 2k$ on gear. My next buy (drumwise) I think will be an AKG 112 I think.
 
pandamonk said:
Wow, you really need that many mics? :eek:
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i'm in the lucky position to be recording an album in a london studio right now with a rather good producer. (bloc party, white rose movement, rakes etc)

we're using three mics on the kick (dynamic on the inside on the beater, an ns10 speaker on the outside and a d12 at the hole.)

three on the snare, a thin condenser taped to an sm57 on the top and an sm57 on the bottom.

condenser on the hats.

senheisers on the toms

two ribbon mics as overheads, (coles?)

a nueman in front of the kit, two condensers in an "ms pair" pattern a little further back, two ribbon mics on top of each other a little further back and a large diaphragm condenser in the corridoor.

we have used an additional U87 on the kick before too.
 
Vagodeoz said:
You do if you play metal, like I do :)
On metal it's pretty common to close mike everything. Overheads are usually used only as cymbal mikes, instead of providing an overall drum sound, since everything else is close miked.
I was also thinking about buying the Karma Micro Drum pack. 7 condensers with clips and case for 120$, including shipping to Bolivia. Not bad at all.
But everything I but from now on will be from slow savings. I just finished spending about 2k$ on gear. My next buy (drumwise) I think will be an AKG 112 I think.
Click to expand...
I still doubt you need more than 10-12mics, close-miking all drums and overheads. But my reply was to having all this plus condenser on hats, ribbon in the doorwar, and another mic infront of the kit.

Also, the AKG isn't a great mic, imo. I prefer the Shure Beta 52A, but I've heard the Audix D6 blows this out of the water.
 
depends what sound you want really. there are no actual rules. as well as this band i produce b sides and demos for people and i generally close mic everything and just use one room mic.

i have to say that the drums on this album sound absolutely amazing and that's mostly down to great mics and pres and a great room.
 
protein said:
i'm in the lucky position to be recording an album in a london studio right now with a rather good producer. (bloc party, white rose movement, rakes etc)

we're using three mics on the kick (dynamic on the inside on the beater, an ns10 speaker on the outside and a d12 at the hole.)

three on the snare, a thin condenser taped to an sm57 on the top and an sm57 on the bottom.

condenser on the hats.

senheisers on the toms

two ribbon mics as overheads, (coles?)

a nueman in front of the kit, two condensers in an "ms pair" pattern a little further back, two ribbon mics on top of each other a little further back and a large diaphragm condenser in the corridoor.

we have used an additional U87 on the kick before too.
Click to expand...
And i bet another engineer could get a similar, or maybe even better result with half, or even less, the number of mics. I've heard of things like this before, where engineers throw hundred of mics on and around a kit, then an older more experienced engineer comes along with very few mics and acheives a much better sound. I'm not for one minute criticizing this producer and engineer, he is much more experienced than i. I'm merely expressing my opinion, based on my experience(which isn't huge).

The NS10 on kick does give a nice sound mixed along with another mic, but i doubt you need 3 or even 4 mics to get a good sound from a kick, and same with snare.

By all means, experiment with lots of different mics, but discard the ones you dislike and try to reduce the number of mics. If anything, it means there's less to setup.

I've used a few sennheisers(can't remember model numbers) on toms. I hated them! But i'm sure some people could get a good sound out of them. Just depends on the heads, drums, player, placement, and room.
 
like i said, there are no rules are there? amy winehouse's album was recorded with one mic on the kit.

the sound we are going for requires more and i believe rich costey likes more options when he mixes.
 
If I were you and want a good metal sounding kick, I would look into drumagog or an Audix D6 for a bass mic.
 
chester said:
If I were you and want a good metal sounding kick, I would look into drumagog or an Audix D6 for a bass mic.
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You dont need a D6 to get a good Kick sound. Just about any mic eq'd and placed properly can get you a good kick drum sound. Drumagog however is a great recommendation.
 
i've engineered for a metal/emo producer and he replaces all snares and kicks as standard practice. personally i hate that sound but if you want a commercial metal sound it's worth thinking about.
 
Yeah, right now I use a dynamic and run it through drumagog and mix it with a very bassy sounding kick.
But I wanted to record the real deal.
I guess for now it's the best option.
 
Vagodeoz said:
Yeah, right now I use a dynamic and run it through drumagog and mix it with a very bassy sounding kick.
But I wanted to record the real deal.
I guess for now it's the best option.
Click to expand...
Why not use a sub-kick along with the dynamic? Just use a speaker as a mic.
 
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