How would you mic this?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Armistice
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Armistice

Armistice

Son of Yoda
A friend and I are getting an acoustic duo happening. We both play acoustic guitars, he sings and I occasionally moan a line or two as a doo wop boy.

When we rehearse we generally plug our acoustics via the inbuilt pickups into our electric guitar amps, at pretty low volume, just to boost volume a bit, add a bit of reverb etc. We sing unamplified.

This next rehearsal I want to record, for the purposes of listening to it and seeing how song structure / combinations / guitar parts are working.

What would you recommend I stick where to best do this in a simple way? I don't want the distraction of the singer all of a sudden having to sing directly into a microphone - I just want to capture the sound as we're currently making it. Capturing the amplified acoustic sound per se is of no importance - it's just to make rehearsing easier.

I appreciate that this is necessarily going to be lo-fi - the point is not to get a high quality recording, but to get something we can listen to and make decisions about the songs and who plays and sings what etc...

I have a reasonable selection of LDC (including one with omni), SDC and dynamics (OK, just your basic Shures for dynamics) and probably enough leads and stands and preamps to run four mics if I needed to...

So.... any suggestions on what I should do?

The room is a lounge room with carpeted floor and 10' ceilings - brick and plaster walls, brick being the closest, if that makes a difference.

Thanks for your help...
 
Armi,

I think it's a case of just experimenting till you find a good balance of sounds. I frequently record when a couple of us get together and I'll use one or two SD mics a couple of feet off the guitars, they pick up vocals OK but are far enough off to not be intrusive.

ChrisO :cool:
 
If you want an extremely true representation of whats going on in the room, a pair of omni's would be fantastic. You'll catch everything, for better or worse. :)

Edit: Taking the time to read the original post, I see that two omni's aren't available to you (look up Naiant btw, very cheap and completely INCREDIBLE)... I would put the omni you do have at a reasonable in-between distance, and try just that first. If that's too weak/unflattering (omnis don't lie usually), I'd experiment with adding an additional spot mic or two, being very cautious about phase cancellations.
 
You haven't really said what you plan on recording with. Lately I have been playing with a Zoom H2 for doing interviews. For a 'practice review' recorder it would be really good. Just put it where you want the listening position to be and if you really want to catch the sound in the whole room just put it into 4 channel surround mode.
 
Lately I've been plugging a couple of MSH mics right into the front of an 1814, hitting record, and forgetting about it. Just for the "rehearsal recording" stuff that is, but it works just perfect.
 
If you have a couple matching SDC's, I would simply do a basic stereo recording. XY or ORTF woud do the trick.

If you practice facing each other, you could always use a single omni in between the two of you and adjust amp volume/location to get a decent balance between guitar and voice. Quick and dirty, but it would work fine for the purposes you're talking about.

Of course either method goes with the assumption that you have something to record to. You never mentioned whether or not you have something to record to.

Juan
 
I can assure you I have something to record to... my question relates to what mics I would use where to plug into that device...

Thanks for the suggestions. :)

Cheers
 
Armistice said:
I can assure you I have something to record to...
Cheers
Click to expand...


............says the guy who has recorded a couple of awesomely kick arse albums of his own ;).








BTW.............who are you again?















:D
 
If sound quality isn't a concern, then really any old thing will do.

Did your computer come with a mic?

Maybe go to radio shack and pick up one of those portable recorder thingies.
 
What has been said... XY, ORTF, spaced omnis, or even M/S. It all just depends on what gear you have on hand and choosing a stereo technique based on what you want to get out of it.
 
i would do m/s and just make sure the mic's are not too close. also use the room to mix your self
 
i would use the omni

it should pick up everything the way it is in the room, which is nice. more importantly (to you), it won't be up in the singer's face, so hopefully it won't distract him from singing or playing. Of course, have the other guy play guitar and sing normally while you place the mic in the room.

for a quicker, dirtier, and more convenient recording, use the tiny built in mic on a laptop computer if it sounds ok.
 
If you want to keep it simple and still use your amps for reverb etc I'd stick a couple mics in front of the amps and stick a LDC, either omni or figure eight, somewhere up between you to capture a lil more of the vocals. Either that or find the sweet spot in the room and use a couple SDC in x-y. The first way would give you alot more control though.
 
I'd just put a cardioid LDC in front of each of you, adjust height and distance to get a blend of guitar, voice, and bleed/room that is pleasing/balanced.
 
Daisy said:
Did your computer come with a mic?
Click to expand...

Interesting assumption...

What's this computer thing of which you speak? :D

Thanks for the input everyone, given I particularly want to hear guitar parts, I might just chuck a SDC in front of each guitar so I can separate them in the mix, put an LDC somewhere near the singer that's not too intrusive and, for the general good of recorded music, not worry too much about recording my voice...

I'm sure I'll get something usable...

Incidentally, I record to a Yammie AW4416.

Hey Aus! Thanks for the vote of confidence.

I had a friend down from the country (Qld) recently and I was playing him some new stuff and he said "Stop!" and ran and got his video camera and said "Go" and he recorded a tune or three... unfortunately only using the camera's mic so the sound sucks, but when he went home he got stuck into his editing suite and I've ended up with a DVD of "Armistice live at The Mill" and titles and credits, and intro music and a full colour cover etc... the man's mad, but it was a lovely gesture...

As for an update on the recording project - nothing happening just now, as I'm kitten sitting (2 x Burmese - I should post this in the Cat Forum...) for a friend for two weeks and they spend all their time rumbling through the flat, so that puts recording out of the picture... but I did a few trials earlier and was stumped with my usual problem of "sucky" sound. When the kitties go home I'll try again, perhaps with a single mic this time and building up from there, instead of just assuming I remembered everything from last time and whacking up multiple mics thinking "this will be easy!"

Here we go again!:p
 
So, anyway - did this on the weekend and the results were quite good, but...

The major issue is with the vocal mic picking up the acoustic guitar the singer's playing.

I've identified a couple of issues:

1. Singer doesn't sing loudly - ask him to sing louder
2. Mic too far away - put mic closer
3. Singer (seated) reading lyrics from the floor, means he sings downwards - put lyrics on stand

Doing all these things will improve the situation, however I'm wondering what else I can do by way of mic orientation, selection etc. that will reduce the sound from his acoustic in the vocal channel.

I'm using a LDC cardioid pattern for the vocals and an SDC on his amped (quietly!) acoustic guitar (via pickup) and an LDC on my amped guitar.

The two amps are facing the singer, so at the back of the vocal LDC mic - and the bleed into the vocal channel is NOT the amped guitars but the acoustic sound itself of the singer's guitar.

Will putting the LDC vocal mic in a different orientation (upside down, sideways etc.) reduce the input from below where his acoustic guitar is?

Again, I stress this is meant to be a relaxed live recording for the purposes of examing song structure and how we play together, as I wouldn't do it this way if I was recording it "properly" - it's just be nice to get some more of the acoustic guitar out of the vocal channel if I can do it via changing something.

I'm using a RODE NT2 on vocals, which seems to match his voice - it has only caridoid and omni - however the mic I'm using on my amp, an AKG 414 (untried on his voice) also has a hypercardioid setting, if that's any use...

Thanks for any input.

Cheers
 
I think addressing the 3 points you mentioned may help a fair bit, especially getting the music up off the floor, actually, if you can get his head up sufficiently, and stick a dynamic (SM58) close in, level with his chin and angled "upwards" so that the guitar is approaching the "null" area of the mic you may get closer to what you want.

Alternatively, track the guitars first and then do the vocal track seperately.

Just my thoughts............;)

ChrisO :cool:
 
You could also spend $49 on a Naiant X-X, clip it on your friend, on his collar, and adjust levels as needed! This would still leave him hands free and give you a little more control over your mix,

Juan
 
Well he could.........except for the time frame and additional cost of posting to Australia.

:cool:
 
juan162 said:
You could also spend $49 on a Naiant X-X, clip it on your friend, on his collar, and adjust levels as needed! This would still leave him hands free and give you a little more control over your mix,

Juan
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Lapel mics are a compromise that I don't think is appropriate in a recording studio. There are probably exceptions, but I wouldn't think this is one of them.

There are a variety of techniques using your existing mics, several have been mentioned already so the OP just needs to try some and see how it goes. The only thing that greatly disturbs me is the guitar amps, I don't see how that is going to be conducive to a good tone or normal stereo image.

The other thing I would try to change is the floor. It's better if it's reflective, maybe a vinyl remnant or something? Plywood? A few parquet squares? That's all I have for ideas, somebody probably has a better one.
 
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