how would I mix/master this riff more effectively?

B

bball_1523

New member
Here is a short riff I made with drums and keyboards. I want to make a song out of this, but first I want to know how I can mix and master this song better so that it will both sound mixed well and sound louder.

I use Sonar 6 HSXL, Reason 3, Boss gt-8, ibanez gax70, and my PC w/m-audio firewire solo, to record. I record my guitars direct to firewire solo.

Any advice on what I need to change, redo, fix, etc?

LINK:

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/songInfo.cfm?bandID=389215&songID=5434136
 
It sounds to me like the drums and the guitar/keyboard are not synced
up--Did you record the drums first? Forget mastering--its just a riff.
Track the stuff you want to put in, figure out the time issues, make
it a song, and when you have it (or more than you have now), re-post
it. You may be deliberately trying to play off-time for syncopation; I
don't know. Give some more info (if possible?!).
 
TimN said:
It sounds to me like the drums and the guitar/keyboard are not synced
up--Did you record the drums first? Forget mastering--its just a riff.
Track the stuff you want to put in, figure out the time issues, make
it a song, and when you have it (or more than you have now), re-post
it. You may be deliberately trying to play off-time for syncopation; I
don't know. Give some more info (if possible?!).
Click to expand...

hmm, I know the guitar is off-time with the drums. The drums are programmed so they are pretty much perfectly timed in the piano roll. the Keyboard I played on a midi controller and the attack is up so that may be why it sounds off-time, but also I didn't correct any mistakes to it and didn't quantize.

the entire riff segment is in 7/8 time signature. I purposely kept the hi-hat and ride cymbals playing each beat, so it may sound syncopated.

I think the main thing I want is a more punchier sound with both the guitar and drums. I find that my tracks' overall volume is always low! Any way around that?
 
The drums should be moved forward in the mix; I use E-mu patch-mix,
and lately I've been running things through the aux send to add gain.
I mention this because I think you're referring to low signal levels. A
lot of people will tell you right from the get-go that you should be compressing
the tracks, especially the drums. The style of music you play demands this,
they will say, and they may be right. I rarely use compression, but I play
and record folk-rock type music, and my singing isn't strident or "peaky"
which might call for compression. It probably wouldn't hurt to try compressing
the tracks. Try it on the drums and see what happens. Do you have an idea
about the rest of the song, and how it will progress?
 
TimN said:
The drums should be moved forward in the mix; I use E-mu patch-mix,
and lately I've been running things through the aux send to add gain.
I mention this because I think you're referring to low signal levels. A
lot of people will tell you right from the get-go that you should be compressing
the tracks, especially the drums. The style of music you play demands this,
they will say, and they may be right. I rarely use compression, but I play
and record folk-rock type music, and my singing isn't strident or "peaky"
which might call for compression. It probably wouldn't hurt to try compressing
the tracks. Try it on the drums and see what happens. Do you have an idea
about the rest of the song, and how it will progress?
Click to expand...

How do I move the drums forward in the mix? I never understood how to do that.

Also I'm not too familiar with compressing, do you know of any beginning guides or tutorials for metal guitar?

I don't know how else I'm going to progress the song yet, but it will most like be really heavy through most of the song, and some leads.
 
In the second part the guitar is completely off-rythm, it sounds like something between garbage and triplets.

But the 7/8 rythm is quite interesting idea, you just have to work a bit more to make it really sound like 4+3 and not a total garbage. I would add some accent to the 1st and 5th beats.
 
I notice my guitar is off during the double bass part. I'm not too great at timing, do you have any suggestions? When I pan both parts left/right, they don't seem to be in time together. I seriously suck at this lol.

adding accents seems kinda hard with distortion, since it all seems to sound the same to me.
 
The problem is not only timing, there are wrong numbers of notes for each chord. They have to be in the 4+3 rythm, which in double bass means 8+6 picks on the guitar.
Also the 7th beat could be a long one instead of two short.
 
kubeek said:
The problem is not only timing, there are wrong numbers of notes for each chord. They have to be in the 4+3 rythm, which in double bass means 8+6 picks on the guitar.
Also the 7th beat could be a long one instead of two short.
Click to expand...

well it's 7/8, meaning 7 ticks off the metronome, and for each tick I strummed the guitar and downpicked, so I'm not sure what you mean by wrong timing. I just followed the 7 beats and started over on the next measure.
 
yeah it is 7/8, but you are holding the chords different long compared to the first part. In the first part they change 4-3-4-3... in 1/8 measure, but in the second part it is 7-7-7-7 in 1/16 measure probably, but it should be 8-6-8-6 to hold the same pattern.
 
kubeek said:
yeah it is 7/8, but you are holding the chords different long compared to the first part. In the first part they change 4-3-4-3... in 1/8 measure, but in the second part it is 7-7-7-7 in 1/16 measure probably, but it should be 8-6-8-6 to hold the same pattern.
Click to expand...

I don't understand? the 2nd part with the double bass is the same exact pattern at the 1st part. Maybe the distortion is so rough that it's not easy to make out the pattern?

It can be any pattern right?

besides all the timing, what about the mix? How can I improve that, that's what I really want to know.
 
the last 10 seconds seemed slightly off...but i think it was on for the most part.

the thing is the drums and the guitar are working against each other. changing when the chords change would help, but it feels like one is a beat behind or something.
 
cello_pudding said:
the last 10 seconds seemed slightly off...but i think it was on for the most part.

the thing is the drums and the guitar are working against each other. changing when the chords change would help, but it feels like one is a beat behind or something.
Click to expand...

yeah I know I messed up on the timing with the drums, I just didn't want to record it over. lol I'll do that later.

Besides all that, what about the mix? How can I improve the distortion and also make the entire work sound louder and clearer?
 
yeah...i do that ALL the time. i get so giddy about recording something that i don't really care if its edited shabbily or played messy.



whoa..i'm really surprised my computer's spelling majig recognized "shabbily"
 
cello_pudding said:
yeah...i do that ALL the time. i get so giddy about recording something that i don't really care if its edited shabbily or played messy.



whoa..i'm really surprised my computer's spelling majig recognized "shabbily"
Click to expand...

yeah, well the main thing is I wanted to show off my regular mixes, and this is almost as good as I've gotten over the years, so I am looking for advice on how to improve my mix. Then I might re-record and sharpen up the tracks.
 
bball_1523 said:
I am looking for advice on how to improve my mix. Then I might re-record and sharpen up the tracks.
Click to expand...
I think you have it the other way around. Well recorded tracks are more responsible for getting a good mix than any "effect" you can put on badly played tracks.
 
RAMI said:
I think you have it the other way around. Well recorded tracks are more responsible for getting a good mix than any "effect" you can put on badly played tracks.
Click to expand...

well pretend it's in time, because it sounds nearly good to me. The distortion just sounds too muddy and the drums don't sound punchy.

How is my track not well recorded? Any advice?
 
How is my track not well recorded?
Click to expand...
I never said it's not well recorded. YOU YOURSELF answer your own question here:
bball_1523 said:
The distortion just sounds too muddy and the drums don't sound punchy.
Click to expand...

If that's the case, then that should give you a clue as to what YOU think needs to be re-tracked. You're pretty much asking the same question over and over and you don't seem to be satisfied with the answer you keep getting over and over: Mastering won't fix your problem.
 
Actually, I can never figure out the timing of a song (that is, is it 7/4,
or 7/8), but I can always tell when the beat is being dragged, or the
timing is off. I've never had a problem playing in time, or to tricky
time signatures--I just couldn't tell you their names. To the point though:
Your timing does indeed drift off in the second part of the song. Try
turning up the drum part during the mix, and re-record the riff, playing along
to the snare or the hi-hat. Once you have it down, vary the riff, in half
time and double time in relation to the beat.
Compression is just that--the overall signal is squeezed so that loud and
quiet are not separated by all that much (not the greatest definition).
Search "compression in recording" or something like that and I guarantee
you will have plenty to read up on for the next month.
It sounds like you're already using some kind of reverb on the drum track.
Cut back on that a bit, turn the git down, and then the drums up. Once
you can hear the drums better, solo them and try different EQ settings.
Un-solo and re-solo, checking the sound against the mix.
It seems to me the distortion on the guitar is fine, but that's me. To bring
the drums "up" or "forward," I just meant to get them to be present and louder
in relation to everything else. Experiment with:
1. Timing--play along to the soloed drums, with the recorded guitar muted;
2. Fiddle around with various EQ and reverb settings (or scratch the reverb
altogether and use delay).
 
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