How well do you think.....

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chadsxe

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Heavy distorted (a la Metal) guitars would track through a Grace Design Model 101? I am afraid it is going to be to sterile (what you hear is what you get), but then agian in this price range getting nice color from a pre is kinda hard. I am in the market for a pre in the 500-550 range, any suggestions?
 
Seems to me that you might want the flavour imparted by the distortion effect, and if that is the case, the 101 should do fine. However, if you want the soudn of a overdriven tube, check out the brick.
 
For overdriven guitar, the last thing you should be worrying about is what mic pre you're going to use.

Seriously ... are you going to worry about distortion specs, self-noise, amount of gain or slew rate when you're recording something that's basically cranked to the hilt, overdriven and distorting all to hell? :D Or what kind of frequency response a mic pre has on a source that doesn't even go beyond 80 to 10,000 hz to being with?

I ususally tell people to use your best pres for the drums and vocals where it sort of matters. Don't worry as much about the backing vocals, toms or electric guitars. Worry about the amp! Get a good one. Or rent one for the day. Think Mesa ... Bogner ... Diesel ... some of the good Marshalls, etc. If that's too rich for your blood, then Peavey used to make some stuff that pops up on ebay sometimes called the VTM. Good for overdrive shit; better than that Crate garbage or any amp modeler crap.

Then worry about your mic pres. But don't spend a dime more on the mic pre until you've got a killer amp. I'd rather have a Diesel, Orange, etc. and an Audio Buddy than a Marshall valvestate and an API.
 
I have both a Tripple Rec and Marshall JCM 2000 (DSL100), so amps are pretty much covered. I think my weakest part of my chain is my pres. All I have is a couple on a Mackie VLZ board, and a DMP3. I keep reading reviews about the Grace 101 and by all means they are great reviews. The only quirk I am having about it is that it is suppose to add no color at all, and if that is the case the DMP3 pretty much does the same thing. Hmm any other suggestions.
 
Like fraserhutch said, the Groove Tubes Brick. That ought to add some color.
 
Color. Jesus. I don't even know what people mean when they say that fucking word, anymore. :D I mean, seriously, it gets thrown around out there left and right like it's mashed potatoes and beans or something. Christ. "Does that come with stinkin' mashed potatoes and beans or what?" Yea, buddy, I got your mashed potatoes and beans, right here, buddy.

Yea, but are they "colored" mashed potatoes. Cuz my potatoes better have color. I read that in Mashed Potatoe Review Magazine.

Don't worry about color when you're mic'ing an amp. Just get a good sound out of the amp, and mic it. This color shit is so damn subtle -- especially from a mic pre -- compared to the color/sound of your amp and the mic you stick in front of it ... you'll never hear it.

Sorry for the rant. Wasn't directed at you, specifically. :D More a general kinda' thing I see on this board too often.
 
I can't comment on using the 101 on heavily-distorted guitars as IMO this pre is better utilized as providing more of a clean, clear with little coloration translation of a particular track's signal for straight clarity and not as an additional enhancement to an effect.
After skipping a coupla' cr card payments and my daughter's priv school tuition I bought 1 based on both the advice given here and listening to several members perf's thru the unit. Lastly based on a recommendation by well known hex-pert sonusman and thru application, the 101 is EXCELLENT running your mixdowns thru to 2-track for a well-rounded production...provided you have performed decent tracking results.
Just my .0000000000000000000000000000000002 cents worth.
 
This is one where I agree pretty much with Chessrock. Color is selective, subtle, distortion, which takes some of the nasty detail out of a sound source, like airbrushing a picture. A cranked up amp is so distorted that the additional distortion added by a mic pre is a little bit like pissing in the ocean. "What you hear is what you get" is *just fine* for recording a cab. The trick is choosing and placing the amp and the mic so you like what you hear.-Richie
 
chessrock said:
Color. Jesus. I don't even know what people mean when they say that fucking word, anymore. :D I mean, seriously, it gets thrown around out there left and right like it's mashed potatoes and beans or something. Christ. "Does that come with stinkin' mashed potatoes and beans or what?" Yea, buddy, I got your mashed potatoes and beans, right here, buddy.

Yea, but are they "colored" mashed potatoes. Cuz my potatoes better have color. I read that in Mashed Potatoe Review Magazine.

Don't worry about color when you're mic'ing an amp. Just get a good sound out of the amp, and mic it. This color shit is so damn subtle -- especially from a mic pre -- compared to the color/sound of your amp and the mic you stick in front of it ... you'll never hear it.

Sorry for the rant. Wasn't directed at you, specifically. :D More a general kinda' thing I see on this board too often.
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That was GREAT!!!!!!
 
chessrock said:
Don't worry about color when you're mic'ing an amp. Just get a good sound out of the amp, and mic it. This color shit is so damn subtle -- especially from a mic pre -- compared to the color/sound of your amp and the mic you stick in front of it ... you'll never hear it.
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Used to be the guys I worked with would overdrive tube pres to add to the distortion effect on guitars. They liked that "flavour" (since we don't like the word colour). As mentioned in my post though, I agree with this in general - I tend to like to keep honest to the original signal of the distortion effect.
 
fraserhutch said:
Used to be the guys I worked with would overdrive tube pres to add to the distortion effect on guitars..
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Did they forget how to turn the gain on the amp up? :D

I totally see where you're coming from, though. I suppose I should add the following disclaimer to my longwinded rant: Unless it's for an effect.
 
Well based on the Info you guys have given me hear is what I plan on doing....

I have the amps that I think I need (JCM 200 DSL 100, and a Triple Rec). These amps deliver the tone and sound I am looking for based on what I am hearing in the room we are going to record in. With that said I am going to purchase the Grace Model 101 because it is reviewed as a pre that delivers what you hear with out its own imprint.

CheeseRock suggested I save the best pre for my drums/singer. With this said I will be recording the drums as follows.

OH=DMP3
Toms=Mackie Board
Bass Drum=Mackie Board
Snare Top= Grace 101
Snare Bottom= Mackie Board

You might be wondering why I am not using the Grace on the Bass Drum. Well because I will be GOGing booth the toms and the Bass Drum. I feel as the "Heavy" feel you get from metal music is not from the guitars but the Bass and Bass Drums. I can't record bass drum and the bass drum I am using does not get me what I am looking for so GOGing is my only option and I feel like it is a smart one at that.

The guitars are going to go through the Grace via a 57 and maybe a Condenser in the room. The Bass will go DI through the grace and the vocals I will experement with through a couple diffrent pres and mics.

Feel free to give me some advice or just tell me I am an idiot :)

Thanks
 
The grace will only sound sterile if you are using a mic and source signal that also sound sterile. As for the DMP3 doing the "clean transparent" thing, in my opinion that is not what the DMP3 does at all. In fact, I would consider the DMP3 to be more of a sterile preamp than a clean one. Not a lot of noise (which is a good thing), but kind of gives a "boxy" sound. The grace will open your ears up if you are used to the DMP3. Thats not to say that the DMP3 doesn't have some sort of value. Many people have never really heard what a clean transparent preamp really does. So many manufacturers brag about their pre's as being just that, but in my opinion fall way short of that claim.

It is true that many people seem to be under the impresison that a preamp will make some huge radical tone transformation in their sound. While I agree that preamps are often over analyzed for that, I disagree with the thought that preamp selection is not an important factor in selecting the right recording chain. Channel by channel the differences may not seem huge, but once a bunch of tracks are laid and you begin mixing those "little" differences can certainly go a long way.
 
chessrock said:
Did they forget how to turn the gain on the amp up? :D

I totally see where you're coming from, though. I suppose I should add the following disclaimer to my longwinded rant: Unless it's for an effect.
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That's what I meant. They wanted the overdriven tube sound to add to the effect. I never meant to imply that that's how they generated the distortion, just add to it and round it out.

I personally am not a huge fan of it, but I'll use it from time to time. Usually, I like to preserve the sound the guitarist gets from his amp. I have the Grace 101, and would not hesistate to use it on a guitar with distortion.
 
I could see the Grace 101 being fairly interesting on distorted guitar. I could also see it being fairly uninteresting. The thing about the Grace 101 is that it's real. And, sometimes, it's overly real. If you worked it right, then you could put out some arty distorted guitar with one. BTW, the 101 puts a nice image in the monitors. The 101 is a decent preamp. It gets overlooked too often.
 
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