T
tomy
New member
hey guys, what method do u take to write a song?
melody frist? chord frist? lyric frist?
melody frist? chord frist? lyric frist?
stonepiano
Member
I always write the chords frist.
L
Layla Nahar
New member
lyrics first. Its a lot of work to fill the music in after that!
LN
LN
R
rguagenti
New member
I usually kick a melody around in my head until I get the first 4 to 8 bars and then I fit in some words and let the music take me where it will.
Typically, the end result is miles away from my original intentions.
A song I originally intended to be an acoustic balld, could end up being a rocker or vice versa. That's what makes this so enjoyable.
Typically, the end result is miles away from my original intentions.
A song I originally intended to be an acoustic balld, could end up being a rocker or vice versa. That's what makes this so enjoyable.
Aaron Cheney
Favorite Chord: C 6/9
I almost always start w/ a lyric idea first. I am constantly on the look-out for a glib or interesting turn of phrase that would make a good hook. In that regard, I guess you could say I'm the biggest rip-off artist in the world. I keep a running list in the back of my lyric-book with nothing but phrases I stumble across in my day-to-day meandering.
Usually about 1 in 20 of those ideas will generate a story idea to me, and that's what I turn into a song. At that point, I check to see if my phrase or hook line has adequate "rhymability" to proceed. If it doesn't, I look to change it slightly to something that does. If it just can't be changed, I scrap it and move on. The only exception if the hook isn't generally "rhymable" is if it has one very strong and clever rhyme that works within the context of the song.
From there I start to flesh out the entire story in lyric form. As I'm doing so, a general feeling of what the music should be often starts to manifest itself. In some cases I'll almost have the melody and chords written in my head by the time I'm finished with the basic lyrics.
At this point, I get out my acoustic, work out the chords, and very - very quickly get everything in my DAW; like an audio "thumbnail" scketch. I just want to preserve that first musical instinct.
Then the long refining process begins: looking for more interesting or graceful ways to say things, making sure the pacing of the song is interesting and doesn't drag, deciding which song form works best, to bridge or not to bridge, etc, etc, etc,
Once I'm pretty close with all those things, I start to record a demo version.
And that's how I write hit after hit.
got mojo?
www.voodoovibe.com
Usually about 1 in 20 of those ideas will generate a story idea to me, and that's what I turn into a song. At that point, I check to see if my phrase or hook line has adequate "rhymability" to proceed. If it doesn't, I look to change it slightly to something that does. If it just can't be changed, I scrap it and move on. The only exception if the hook isn't generally "rhymable" is if it has one very strong and clever rhyme that works within the context of the song.
From there I start to flesh out the entire story in lyric form. As I'm doing so, a general feeling of what the music should be often starts to manifest itself. In some cases I'll almost have the melody and chords written in my head by the time I'm finished with the basic lyrics.
At this point, I get out my acoustic, work out the chords, and very - very quickly get everything in my DAW; like an audio "thumbnail" scketch. I just want to preserve that first musical instinct.
Then the long refining process begins: looking for more interesting or graceful ways to say things, making sure the pacing of the song is interesting and doesn't drag, deciding which song form works best, to bridge or not to bridge, etc, etc, etc,
Once I'm pretty close with all those things, I start to record a demo version.
And that's how I write hit after hit.
got mojo?
www.voodoovibe.com
M
mikeh
New member
Normally, I start with a chord progression or a riff, which creates a mood or a mental image. This becomes the start of my story line. I then start to develop lyrics to support the story line, and a melody will start to fall in place.
Naturally, as I progress the chords change to support the melody and I start to create a chorus, bridge, etc. etc. - as someone already said the end result is often fairly different than what I started with.
I rarely start to record right away (other han a small tape player). I prefer to play with the song (with a guitar or a piano) which helps me fine tune some lyrical or melodic phrasing and allows me to start "hearing" an arrangement.
After living with the song for a week or so, and depending on the groove of the song, I will often punch the chords into a software program like Band-In-A-Box - just to get a band vibe. I then start replacing the BIAB parts with actual recorded performances.
Often a catch phase (that may become a song title) or a news event, etc. may get logged in my brain, but until I start playing with a guitar or piano I can rarely get a "song" to come out.
I know people who hear a whole song in their head, before they even sit down with an instrument - I'm not gifted in that way.
Naturally, as I progress the chords change to support the melody and I start to create a chorus, bridge, etc. etc. - as someone already said the end result is often fairly different than what I started with.
I rarely start to record right away (other han a small tape player). I prefer to play with the song (with a guitar or a piano) which helps me fine tune some lyrical or melodic phrasing and allows me to start "hearing" an arrangement.
After living with the song for a week or so, and depending on the groove of the song, I will often punch the chords into a software program like Band-In-A-Box - just to get a band vibe. I then start replacing the BIAB parts with actual recorded performances.
Often a catch phase (that may become a song title) or a news event, etc. may get logged in my brain, but until I start playing with a guitar or piano I can rarely get a "song" to come out.
I know people who hear a whole song in their head, before they even sit down with an instrument - I'm not gifted in that way.
Nilbog
hello
I'm much like Mike.
First I'll come up with a cool chord progression. I usually think it will be the verse, but it may end up being the chorus.
I won't worry about the lyrics too much at this point, I just keep playing the riff over and over, and humming to find a good melody. While I'm playing the song over and over I'll play with some different lyrics and see what comes out, and what sounds good.
Then I'l play with chord changes, etc.
Everyone has their own style and it's important to find what work BEST for you. Try out what people have suggested, but if you keep hitting brick walls try something else.
First I'll come up with a cool chord progression. I usually think it will be the verse, but it may end up being the chorus.
I won't worry about the lyrics too much at this point, I just keep playing the riff over and over, and humming to find a good melody. While I'm playing the song over and over I'll play with some different lyrics and see what comes out, and what sounds good.
Then I'l play with chord changes, etc.
Everyone has their own style and it's important to find what work BEST for you. Try out what people have suggested, but if you keep hitting brick walls try something else.
A
AJ_Cantos
New member
I usually catch my guitar and play a chord. Just one. It keeps sounding in the room and then I start singing. One melody that cames out without asking, just fluently... when I have that melody, I repeat it a couple of times in order of not forgetting it, and then I try to follow the song with chords... wow! This is really difficult, but at the same time really exciting... If at the end it results a typical sucesion of chords I refuse it and start again... sometimes I get crazy starting and starting again, but other times I find myself singing something I really love, and I really feel...
This become, usually the verse, I can Imagine alll the song from this... I find the chorus, a bridge, I try solos, and in a few minutes since I got the good idea I have the ambient of the song, I know what the story for lyrics will be.
Writing lyrics it's such a difficult part for me... never know how to do it... and it takes the most part of the time in getting the song finished.
This become, usually the verse, I can Imagine alll the song from this... I find the chorus, a bridge, I try solos, and in a few minutes since I got the good idea I have the ambient of the song, I know what the story for lyrics will be.
Writing lyrics it's such a difficult part for me... never know how to do it... and it takes the most part of the time in getting the song finished.
Nilbog
hello
Lyrics are the hardest part for everyone. My suggestion is to READ some lyrics of bands that you like. For example, I love the lyrics in "tuck me in" by alkaline trio. I think they're genious, so I used them as a model for a few of my songs. I didn't rip anything off, but I tried to copy the style and use it for ideas.
One thing is to find a really interesting and clever way to say smething that is usally simple and boring.
In "tuck me in" for example - it goes
"I pour out onto the floor
like liquid white from fallen glass
Nothing to cry over
My skin went sour long ago
It knew it had nowhere else to go"
It's just a fancy way of saying "it's no use crying over spilt milk"
See?
Another thing I do is take something that comes easily and tranfer it into something similar. Like, for me, I can sing crappy cheese ball love songs all day. Blah blah I want you but your so far away - Why are you with all those other guys - love blah blah....
But a song like that is easy to transfer into a "i hate girls" song, which is slightly less cliche and a bit more interesting.
So I'm sure you havesometing that comes pretty natrually to you, just sing that - then change it and manipulate the words you use to make something more acceptable.
That's just my 2 cents....or 25 cents worth
One thing is to find a really interesting and clever way to say smething that is usally simple and boring.
In "tuck me in" for example - it goes
"I pour out onto the floor
like liquid white from fallen glass
Nothing to cry over
My skin went sour long ago
It knew it had nowhere else to go"
It's just a fancy way of saying "it's no use crying over spilt milk"
See?
Another thing I do is take something that comes easily and tranfer it into something similar. Like, for me, I can sing crappy cheese ball love songs all day. Blah blah I want you but your so far away - Why are you with all those other guys - love blah blah....
But a song like that is easy to transfer into a "i hate girls" song, which is slightly less cliche and a bit more interesting.
So I'm sure you havesometing that comes pretty natrually to you, just sing that - then change it and manipulate the words you use to make something more acceptable.
That's just my 2 cents....or 25 cents worth
jimistone
long standing member
Aaron Cheney pretty well described what I do. You have to have a theme and a good "title" line that sums it all up into one line...to me that is the hardest part. Once I have the main hook line the rest of the song comes quickly.
I will add this, I have written songs that were good but just didn't work as well as I had hoped....and then I change the music and the song would be more powerful. I have written country songs and ended up putting them to blues music...written blues songs and ended up putting those lyrics to rock.
If your writing is good and you have the correct meter in your lyrics....you can transpose those lyrics over many different musical styles (with minute changes that aply to that particular genre of music
peace
jimistone
I will add this, I have written songs that were good but just didn't work as well as I had hoped....and then I change the music and the song would be more powerful. I have written country songs and ended up putting them to blues music...written blues songs and ended up putting those lyrics to rock.
If your writing is good and you have the correct meter in your lyrics....you can transpose those lyrics over many different musical styles (with minute changes that aply to that particular genre of music
peace
jimistone
B
Benreturns
New member
I'll usually hear a song on the radio (im writing for the current 'pop' market, r n b based pop... sell out i know, but it's where the money is even though it does betray my beatles routes but thats another story...the beatles influences are there tho - after all its ALL pop music...). Basically i'l hear a song and like it. I like the beat, the hook, refrain, lyrical topic, a certain 'groove' in it. These songs can be Beatles to Destinys Child. Its all got its qualities you know! The I'l think... hmmm i awnt to write a song like that and I'l start kicking around some ideas.It'll usually come together on my guitar. For instance alot of modern pop music is in minor keys, but they still have a tremendous uptempo groove. Its a charachteristic of modern pop. Ive studied and studied this stuff...
However:
There are the times i'll be strumming away to myself and something will just 'come' (no dirty jokes pleeeeease). It's like being tuned into a secret channel. Do the songwriters here get that? Sometimes a song will just spill out of me and they are the most enjoyable to write. I might change the style or tempo to make it more accessable.
Other times i might get a lyrical idea and store aload of words on paper before i go back to it and find a riff that suits it or something else spills out and develops into this song.
Whatevers good, go with it!
However:
There are the times i'll be strumming away to myself and something will just 'come' (no dirty jokes pleeeeease). It's like being tuned into a secret channel. Do the songwriters here get that? Sometimes a song will just spill out of me and they are the most enjoyable to write. I might change the style or tempo to make it more accessable.
Other times i might get a lyrical idea and store aload of words on paper before i go back to it and find a riff that suits it or something else spills out and develops into this song.
Whatevers good, go with it!
C
CyanJaguar
New member
wildcard first, then build everything around it.
joro
The Pie Guy
a little de'javu
pie?..........I like pie................and cake........
If I am writing lyrics first, I establish the mood by conjuring up the spirits of late and great songwriters.
Once I have established contact with them, (Croce, Chapin, Morrison et al.) I draw blood from my left arm in order to have the appropriate shade of red while scribing (I am right handed.)
This helps to cut-down on errors (I don't want to waste any....ya know?) Once "inspired" to write, I chose the appropriate substrate. For instance, a love song would be written on the inside of a label of a can of Hormel chili (makes absolute sense n'est pas?)
For music, I start by bashing my head against a hard, rough textured surface to the desired beat I am looking for. This establishes what I call the "Throb "TM method. Once established, I have a constant beat to follow (I could buy a metronome....but, why bother.)
Others on theses boards have made reference to using illicit substances to augment the creative process.
Can you believe it? Why? When there are simpler, more natural ways of establishing the mood.
Oh well, to each his own. I suppose everyone is different.
CyanJaguar said:
pie?..........I like pie................and cake........
If I am writing lyrics first, I establish the mood by conjuring up the spirits of late and great songwriters.
Once I have established contact with them, (Croce, Chapin, Morrison et al.) I draw blood from my left arm in order to have the appropriate shade of red while scribing (I am right handed.)
This helps to cut-down on errors (I don't want to waste any....ya know?) Once "inspired" to write, I chose the appropriate substrate. For instance, a love song would be written on the inside of a label of a can of Hormel chili (makes absolute sense n'est pas?)
For music, I start by bashing my head against a hard, rough textured surface to the desired beat I am looking for. This establishes what I call the "Throb "TM method. Once established, I have a constant beat to follow (I could buy a metronome....but, why bother.)
Others on theses boards have made reference to using illicit substances to augment the creative process.
Can you believe it? Why? When there are simpler, more natural ways of establishing the mood.
Oh well, to each his own. I suppose everyone is different.
Jagular
Active member
Repeat of a post I made to a similar question on differnt forum today:
Well… let’s see here. Usually (85% of the time I’d guess) a song starts with me as a hook or a general idea that I want to get across that leads to a hook. Usually from there, I write the lyrics and melody together, but not always. Sometimes lyrics come first and suggest a melody. Occasionally, I just get a cool riff in my head and go from there. I usually first off kind of set up kind of a story board for the song. This helps give a little direction to the flow of the song. I am currently using a trial version of Lyric Pro software that is very useful for this to keep me organized. It has a brainstorming function that let’s you kind of rough out the idea. I usually just write prose first to get the general shape of the story. This is usually where I will decide what form the song will be. Sometimes a story lends itself well to an AABA form or sometimes VCVCBC from or whatever… Also at this point I try to take some time to relax in silent reflection of the story and not write anything. I try to visualize the story, kind of like a movie. I can sometimes get some good word pictures that can be used in the song this way. This is actually a step I think I need to spend more time with.
Then I will usually work with the chorus (or refrain) first since this is where I need to drive home the point of the song. This is where the power of the song needs to be lyrically and melodically IMO.
Once I get the chorus down, I will try to flesh out the first verse and make sure it flows smoothly into the chorus. The first verse needs to be strong and get the listener interested. I think the first verse is second in importance to the chorus/hook. So that is the order I choose to work it.
Once the first verse is done, I try to flesh out the other verses, bridge (if there is one) etc. along the story line. Sometimes at this point, the chorus or other parts might get tweaked as the puzzle attempts to fit together. In fact on the last song I finished recently, I ended up changing the entire story line around the hook because something better (hopefully) occurred to me.
I have to confess to the fact that I have never read any “how to” songwriting books. The techniques I have come from either just doing it or from tidbits picked up along the way from advice from others, both in forums and other places. I intend to start studying and practicing the craft in a lot more detail. There are a lot of techniques that I have been introduced to recently that I have not yet used. I want to try these out and see how they work for me.
My biggest problem, I think, is that I write very slowly. Part if it is the time factor. I don’t often have a block of time I can sit down and just write. Another factor, I’m sure, is lack of knowledge or technique. Another factor is that I constantly edit as I go. I can’t get out of that frame of mind. I think the quickest song I have written is this last one. I think that took 3 or 4 weeks. I really want to try to get the speed up and keep (and improve) the quality. I’m confident with a little discipline and some added technique that I can achieve this. I think by the end of this year I will have written 5-7 songs. Next year, my goal will be 12 (one each month). After that I would eventually like to get to one each week while still doing it only in the limited time I have. If I ever get to do it full time, then I will endeavor to up the output even more. Of course all of these goals are only meaningful if the quality does not suffer. So if it does start to suffer, I’ll have to re-evaluate.
That’s my story and I’m sticking to it
Well… let’s see here. Usually (85% of the time I’d guess) a song starts with me as a hook or a general idea that I want to get across that leads to a hook. Usually from there, I write the lyrics and melody together, but not always. Sometimes lyrics come first and suggest a melody. Occasionally, I just get a cool riff in my head and go from there. I usually first off kind of set up kind of a story board for the song. This helps give a little direction to the flow of the song. I am currently using a trial version of Lyric Pro software that is very useful for this to keep me organized. It has a brainstorming function that let’s you kind of rough out the idea. I usually just write prose first to get the general shape of the story. This is usually where I will decide what form the song will be. Sometimes a story lends itself well to an AABA form or sometimes VCVCBC from or whatever… Also at this point I try to take some time to relax in silent reflection of the story and not write anything. I try to visualize the story, kind of like a movie. I can sometimes get some good word pictures that can be used in the song this way. This is actually a step I think I need to spend more time with.
Then I will usually work with the chorus (or refrain) first since this is where I need to drive home the point of the song. This is where the power of the song needs to be lyrically and melodically IMO.
Once I get the chorus down, I will try to flesh out the first verse and make sure it flows smoothly into the chorus. The first verse needs to be strong and get the listener interested. I think the first verse is second in importance to the chorus/hook. So that is the order I choose to work it.
Once the first verse is done, I try to flesh out the other verses, bridge (if there is one) etc. along the story line. Sometimes at this point, the chorus or other parts might get tweaked as the puzzle attempts to fit together. In fact on the last song I finished recently, I ended up changing the entire story line around the hook because something better (hopefully) occurred to me.
I have to confess to the fact that I have never read any “how to” songwriting books. The techniques I have come from either just doing it or from tidbits picked up along the way from advice from others, both in forums and other places. I intend to start studying and practicing the craft in a lot more detail. There are a lot of techniques that I have been introduced to recently that I have not yet used. I want to try these out and see how they work for me.
My biggest problem, I think, is that I write very slowly. Part if it is the time factor. I don’t often have a block of time I can sit down and just write. Another factor, I’m sure, is lack of knowledge or technique. Another factor is that I constantly edit as I go. I can’t get out of that frame of mind. I think the quickest song I have written is this last one. I think that took 3 or 4 weeks. I really want to try to get the speed up and keep (and improve) the quality. I’m confident with a little discipline and some added technique that I can achieve this. I think by the end of this year I will have written 5-7 songs. Next year, my goal will be 12 (one each month). After that I would eventually like to get to one each week while still doing it only in the limited time I have. If I ever get to do it full time, then I will endeavor to up the output even more. Of course all of these goals are only meaningful if the quality does not suffer. So if it does start to suffer, I’ll have to re-evaluate.
That’s my story and I’m sticking to it