Badger
Active member
Not this again.....
How to turn your old stereo speakers into the best sounding monitors you ever heard!
D
duck
New member
Headphone listening doesn't allow for a common frame of reference - monitors do.... which is why monitors are used for mixing and not cans............
To add my feeble 2cents.
Ears!
I could walk into a multmillion dollar studio and record and mix a song on the latest 64 track digital with 2000 dollar monitors and it would still sound like a Demo. Someone like George Martin could record the same song on a tascam 4 track and make it sound good. I dont have the Expertise or the years of ear training to get that pro sound. So those 2000 dollar monitors arent really going to do me any good.
I just want to play music. If I want to release a real CD then Im going to a real studio or at least get a real engineer!
To add my feeble 2cents.
Ears!
I could walk into a multmillion dollar studio and record and mix a song on the latest 64 track digital with 2000 dollar monitors and it would still sound like a Demo. Someone like George Martin could record the same song on a tascam 4 track and make it sound good. I dont have the Expertise or the years of ear training to get that pro sound. So those 2000 dollar monitors arent really going to do me any good.
I just want to play music. If I want to release a real CD then Im going to a real studio or at least get a real engineer!
B
Boray
New member
Blue Bear Sound said:
If you listen to this on your monitors, the acoustics of my room and yours will add upp and make it sound like inside a can. Listening using headphones is the only way you almost can hear what it sounds like in my room. And as your job only is to compare it to part 1, it doesn't matter if yours and my hedphones/ears sounds different. All 3 parts will have the same difference. I can see that you don't understand the point of this test. But thanks for trying. (...if you actually are trying)
Duck: You seems to be a sensible guy!
/Anders
Blue Bear Sound
New member
I'm NOT going to get into this again, Anders.... it's clear you don't understand the underlying theory and principles of sound and acoustics, or even record engineering in general....
Until you buy a clue, I'm done arguing your nonsense.....
Until you buy a clue, I'm done arguing your nonsense.....
Krakit
Rzzzzz!
A couple of funnels and some cardboard tubing
How about this. Mount a circle of small speakers outside the turntable facing the center. Put a cardboard tube (from some paper towels) over the spindle. Put two holes in opposite sides of the cardboard tube and poke a funnel tip into each end. At the top of the cardboard tube put a smaller tube (toilet paper roll) making a "T" shape.
Now the funnels will catch the sounds from the surrounding speakers and produce the doppler through the toilet paper tube.
Viola instant leslie!
Carl
How about this. Mount a circle of small speakers outside the turntable facing the center. Put a cardboard tube (from some paper towels) over the spindle. Put two holes in opposite sides of the cardboard tube and poke a funnel tip into each end. At the top of the cardboard tube put a smaller tube (toilet paper roll) making a "T" shape.
Now the funnels will catch the sounds from the surrounding speakers and produce the doppler through the toilet paper tube.
Viola instant leslie!
Carl
B
Boray
New member
Blue Bear Sound said:I'm NOT going to get into this again, Anders.... it's clear you don't understand the underlying theory and principles of sound and acoustics, or even record engineering in general....
Until you buy a clue, I'm done arguing your nonsense.....
It's more and more clear to me that you don't really know what you are talking about. That you don't have the capability to think logically to understand the theory that you have learned in school. You just repeat what you have learned without really knowing why it is that way - it simply is that way because someone that you look up to much have said so... And when you come to the point where your knowledge ends, you just say something like you just did. Your comment that it's pointless to listen with headphones shows that you have a big problem to even understand the very simple point of my test. You with your great knowledge of the underlying theories and principles of sound and acoustics - Can you please explain why it would be pointless to use headphones when one person compares three different parts of a recording using the same headphones and the same ears all the time? Give me the theory behind this as you claim to posess it! If you just answer something like "I don't care to explain it to you", or "you don't have enough knowledge to understand it", then you just show that you can't explain it. It's just a flaw in your logic.
Can't you just do this simple thing for me: Put a set of headphones on your head. Listen to the three parts and then say which of part 2 or 3 you would prefer as your monitors if you actually had to choose one of the two. It was you who asked me for a mp3 way back, so I think you owe me this simple thing.
/Anders
Blue Bear Sound
New member
I've explained myself MANY, MANY times -- you simply don't get it.......
...bye-bye!
...bye-bye!
Track Rat
Just Your Average Sized Member
but....but....you don't understand....it turns up to ELEVEN!!!! IT'S ONE LOUDER!!!!Blue Bear Sound said:
TexRoadkill
Audio Bum
Does Boray actually read any of the replies to his posts? I'm starting to think he is some kind of low tech spam bot.
With all the time you spend trying to defend your EQ'd speakers you could have worked at any job for $5 an hour and now be able to afford some real monitors.
With all the time you spend trying to defend your EQ'd speakers you could have worked at any job for $5 an hour and now be able to afford some real monitors.
V
volltreffer
Imply depressed
Hey I think this threat er... thread has a very high value for understanding the human psyche - I just rated it a ***** and that indeed pushed it up to ***
Boray: by now I cannot understand your missionary efforts... If this thing works nice for you - ok. I think some guys over on the planet tried and liked it. But if I had some decent monitors and a nice room, I wouldn't wanna try it either... Me being a systems engineer, I have to say that some of your stuff sounds very logical from the simple systems theory point of view. I also had to learn that this (always simplified) point of view does not always fit the reality, simply as you have multidimensional partial differential equations that twould properly model your acoustic room. Personally I could imagine that you would be able to do some minor corrections to your monitoring system. But it always is similar to the mic sims: they're nice effects, but don't take the necessity of having nice mics. The same with the speaker sims. If they were as good as presumed, why should anyone buy monitors? And would people even build decent speakers a.s.o.?
You just have to see a difference: we simply are amateurs. I had to mix over cans for a very long time, simply as I did not have the dough to buy monitors. Then I bought JBL control media 1. They're not great, but I like them.I still have to do it sometimes, when my kids don't sleep well. That's ok, we can try a lot, sing in sleeping bags or anything. I think that a pro's customers simply wouldn't wanna sing in sleeping bags so he won't consider this idea for a second.
I mean Blue Bear does his job, I listened to one mix from him and I really liked it. I doubt that I will ever reach this stage... But that's his job that he is doing well. So I do mine and you probably yours. And we both will now the point when someone tries to proove you things that you know will not properly work. They really might be an improvement in your special case, but you probably cannot expand this to general applicability.
You simply should be able to accept that someone does not think that your ideas are as good as you think. It IS always difficult, I know that well... The guys who have tried and liked it will apply it, and the others won't... And I'm rather sure you won't change their minds ...
So till soon on the planet
Boray: by now I cannot understand your missionary efforts... If this thing works nice for you - ok. I think some guys over on the planet tried and liked it. But if I had some decent monitors and a nice room, I wouldn't wanna try it either... Me being a systems engineer, I have to say that some of your stuff sounds very logical from the simple systems theory point of view. I also had to learn that this (always simplified) point of view does not always fit the reality, simply as you have multidimensional partial differential equations that twould properly model your acoustic room. Personally I could imagine that you would be able to do some minor corrections to your monitoring system. But it always is similar to the mic sims: they're nice effects, but don't take the necessity of having nice mics. The same with the speaker sims. If they were as good as presumed, why should anyone buy monitors? And would people even build decent speakers a.s.o.?
You just have to see a difference: we simply are amateurs. I had to mix over cans for a very long time, simply as I did not have the dough to buy monitors. Then I bought JBL control media 1. They're not great, but I like them.I still have to do it sometimes, when my kids don't sleep well. That's ok, we can try a lot, sing in sleeping bags or anything. I think that a pro's customers simply wouldn't wanna sing in sleeping bags so he won't consider this idea for a second.
I mean Blue Bear does his job, I listened to one mix from him and I really liked it. I doubt that I will ever reach this stage... But that's his job that he is doing well. So I do mine and you probably yours. And we both will now the point when someone tries to proove you things that you know will not properly work. They really might be an improvement in your special case, but you probably cannot expand this to general applicability.
You simply should be able to accept that someone does not think that your ideas are as good as you think. It IS always difficult, I know that well... The guys who have tried and liked it will apply it, and the others won't... And I'm rather sure you won't change their minds ...
So till soon on the planet
B
Boray
New member
Blue Bear Sound said:
By avoiding the question you have already given me your answer. You think part 2 sounds better (=closer to the original) than part 3 but you don't want to admit it. I can say this for these simple reasons:
1. If you thought part 3 sounded better, you could say this right away to prove me wrong once and for all. There would be no reason at all why you wouldn't say this.
2. If you on the other hand think that part 2 sounds better, you wouldn't like to admit that, because that would be like saying that I was right. And you don't want to do that so you just avoid the question instead.
3. You don't like to say that part 3 sounds better (just to prove me wrong) because you know that part 2 sound better. So if you said that part 3 sounded better, (knowing that part 2 sounds better), then everyone else listening to the mp3 (through headphones
) would question your hearing ability and your reputation as an audio engineer.So my conclusion is that you think part 2 sound better but that you just don't want to admit it.
(If you think this logical reasoning is nonsense, then maybe it's a bit above your head.)
Bye-bye!
/Anders
B
Boray
New member
volltreffer said:You simply should be able to accept that someone does not think that your ideas are as good as you think. It IS always difficult, I know that well... The guys who have tried and liked it will apply it, and the others won't... And I'm rather sure you won't change their minds ...
So till soon on the planet
Thanks for your peace-making effort! The thing is - why is it only I who should accept that some people don't like my ideas and that should stand for everything that everyone says? Others should accept that as well. Especially if they can't prove me wrong. Smugs that always think they have the right answer should learn that there are alterative ways that works. You don't need a Porsche to go from point A to point B. I don't try to convince people like BlueBear to use my method, I just show a low budget way of doing things that works. I will probably buy a pair of decent monitors some day. And then I would like to have those as flat responding as possible too. I was studying the Behring Truth monitors the other day. They have knobs on the back for room compensation and knobs to add/remove highs and lows etc. I wonder why they put those there?
Why I brought this up again... I thought people here would look at this whole deal differently now when some time had passed. But I admit - I was wrong about this. There is no way on earth that people here would admit that there even to some microscopic point is some truth to anything I have said.
But it's also interesting why this bothers people here so much. Yes, quite interesting. Maybe they see me as a disturber of the peace or something.
Maybe they are only used to people that says "Ok, Thanks!" and not to people who says "Why?".See you on the planet!
/Anders
Badger
Active member
Re: A couple of funnels and some cardboard tubing
Holy Fuckstick batman! I think you have it!. Maybe you could use old headphones for the speaks....
Krakit said:How about this. Mount a circle of small speakers outside the turntable facing the center. Put a cardboard tube (from some paper towels) over the spindle. Put two holes in opposite sides of the cardboard tube and poke a funnel tip into each end. At the top of the cardboard tube put a smaller tube (toilet paper roll) making a "T" shape.
Now the funnels will catch the sounds from the surrounding speakers and produce the doppler through the toilet paper tube.
Viola instant leslie!
Carl
Holy Fuckstick batman! I think you have it!. Maybe you could use old headphones for the speaks....
cordura21
New member
do you know what's the best mic under $200, guys?
Badger
Active member
Mr. Boray..
Heres the deal,
If I walk up to a Medical Doctor, in fact, a sepcialist in VD, and tell him I have discovered a new cure for the clap....all you have to do is hit yourself over the head with a fish, and it goes away. Its not very likely that the good doctor is going to pay much attention to my miricle cure. After he explains the nature of VD to me, in simple terms, in medical terms, what have you, I still say "But it works". Even if I plead with him to try it....Here, go screw that hooker over there, and then hit yourself with this fish. Come on, try it...please? Oh, you are just taking what every one has told about clap and fish at face value without understanding the theory behind it....
More than likley the Doc is not going try it, and it isnt because he's closed minded, its because he's a trained pro, and he knows better. What you are telling him goes against years of training, comon sense, and science.
Blue Bear is that specialist. THis is what he does for a living. He is a pro, not an amature hack like most of us. He doesnt have to listen to your recordings to understand that the test is flawed and will not prove anything. He knows this because he is a pro and he knows what he is talking about. Why your basic theory is flawed has been explained to you in every possible way, by some very knowledgeable people, and that fact that you keep posting "But hitting yourself with a fish really does cure clap!", borders on trolling. Give it a rest.
This is not some new idea you have come up with, its been done many many many times before, and discarded and disproven as may times.
Please, give it a rest...its embarrasing...
Heres the deal,
If I walk up to a Medical Doctor, in fact, a sepcialist in VD, and tell him I have discovered a new cure for the clap....all you have to do is hit yourself over the head with a fish, and it goes away. Its not very likely that the good doctor is going to pay much attention to my miricle cure. After he explains the nature of VD to me, in simple terms, in medical terms, what have you, I still say "But it works". Even if I plead with him to try it....Here, go screw that hooker over there, and then hit yourself with this fish. Come on, try it...please? Oh, you are just taking what every one has told about clap and fish at face value without understanding the theory behind it....
More than likley the Doc is not going try it, and it isnt because he's closed minded, its because he's a trained pro, and he knows better. What you are telling him goes against years of training, comon sense, and science.
Blue Bear is that specialist. THis is what he does for a living. He is a pro, not an amature hack like most of us. He doesnt have to listen to your recordings to understand that the test is flawed and will not prove anything. He knows this because he is a pro and he knows what he is talking about. Why your basic theory is flawed has been explained to you in every possible way, by some very knowledgeable people, and that fact that you keep posting "But hitting yourself with a fish really does cure clap!", borders on trolling. Give it a rest.
This is not some new idea you have come up with, its been done many many many times before, and discarded and disproven as may times.
Please, give it a rest...its embarrasing...
MrZekeMan
New member
Well stated bdgr,
Somehow, I don't think ole Boree' is gonna get it.
Somehow, I don't think ole Boree' is gonna get it.
A1A2
New member
Bdgr:
Nice essay/analogy!
AL
Nice essay/analogy!
AL
B
Boray
New member
Re: Mr. Boray..
Ok, I will give it a rest (again ). I am talking for deaf ears anyway. Someone thought I was brave taking this up again, but I think it was just stupid of me. If you all think Blue Bear is a recording specialist and your great hero - fine! I'm sure he has many good recording tips. But if you analyze his statements logically, they don't hold water. They are not logical - or (this is also very possible) he is ignorant enough to not read the posts through carefully before he replies to them.
If you want the words about my method from a real acoustics expert, an Acoustic Engineer from VSPlanet, read this:
That's the opinion of the expert, not of the house doctor. I leave you with that.
/Anders
Bdgr said:
Ok, I will give it a rest (again
). I am talking for deaf ears anyway. Someone thought I was brave taking this up again, but I think it was just stupid of me. If you all think Blue Bear is a recording specialist and your great hero - fine! I'm sure he has many good recording tips. But if you analyze his statements logically, they don't hold water. They are not logical - or (this is also very possible) he is ignorant enough to not read the posts through carefully before he replies to them.If you want the words about my method from a real acoustics expert, an Acoustic Engineer from VSPlanet, read this:
That's the opinion of the expert, not of the house doctor. I leave you with that.
/Anders
G
GROOVEJIVEY
New member
DAMMITT!!!!
DUDE! I am SO glad my name is not BORAY! I saw some serious head-crackin' here. BTW, I live in Kentucky, & while we don't have sex in the immediate family, a 1st cousin will do nicely in a pinch! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!
Just kidding! Shit, some of the stuff I read had me laughing so damn hard I nearly shit myself... Oh wait, I did. Damn. Where's the poo-poo paper?
DUDE! I am SO glad my name is not BORAY! I saw some serious head-crackin' here. BTW, I live in Kentucky, & while we don't have sex in the immediate family, a 1st cousin will do nicely in a pinch! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!
Just kidding! Shit, some of the stuff I read had me laughing so damn hard I nearly shit myself... Oh wait, I did. Damn. Where's the poo-poo paper?
Badger
Active member
Re: Re: Mr. Boray..
Agreed....It was
You seemed to have missed something...Its not that I think that he is some kind of recording specialist.. I know he is...
This is him
http://www3.sympatico.ca/bvaleria/bluebear.htm
He has a real honest to god studio, he makes a living at it....not some little home recording VS but a real pro studio. That makes him more of an authority than you or me.
You just have the background to get what he is saying to you.
Boray said:
Ok, I will give it a rest (again
Agreed....It was
Yeah, he's the wind beneath my wings and all that....
You seemed to have missed something...Its not that I think that he is some kind of recording specialist.. I know he is...
This is him
http://www3.sympatico.ca/bvaleria/bluebear.htm
He has a real honest to god studio, he makes a living at it....not some little home recording VS but a real pro studio. That makes him more of an authority than you or me.
I have read his satements and they do hold water. I think they are just so far beyond your comprehension that you arent understanding what he is saying, so you dont think they are logical.
You just have the background to get what he is saying to you.
Hmmm....FIst of all, this isn't an acoustics issue, entirely, so even if this cat was an expert , it wouldnt be his field, and second of all, were talking about some cat who hangs out on a website devoted to home non-professional hobiest gear, as opposed to a guy who owns and runs a succesfull pro studio. What qualifies this guy as an expert, and what does he say that really goes against what any of us have been trying to beat into your head anyway? Your moving farther and farther into the bridge dwelling catagory with every word you type.