How to treat stereo channels?

[ssseals]

I record stereo channels from my keyboard & POD because the sound is more full, but I'm confused about how to treat them when mixing.

Since it's stereo, it's in both speakers, but how do you pan a stereo track to make it sit well? Should I convert it to mono after it's recorded & then pan where I want? I guess I'm just confused on how you "pan" a stereo track.

Does that make any sense?

Thanks.

 

[ez_willis]

Stereo tracks are panned hard left and hard right. If it sounds better in mono then blend the two together, and bounce it down to mono. If the two tracks sound better with one louder than the other, set the levels accordingly and bounce it down to mono.

Or pan each track anywhere in between hard left and right.

There really aren't any rules. If it sounds good and you have the tracks available, go with it.

 

[RAMI]

There really aren't any rules. If it sounds good and you have the tracks available, go with it.

That's right.
Sometimes I'll double guitar but not pan hard left and right. I might put one 100% Left and the other 50% Right, so that that guitar seems a little more to the left.
Or, I might even put both tracks right on top of each other in the same place if I really want it to sound like it's one thick guitar.

Like, EZ said, there are no rules when it comes to that. But the norm is to pan hard Left and Right.

 

[ssseals]

What about when you have one track that is a stereo track? Some of my stereo tracks are on separate mono channels & some are a single "stereo" channel.

 

[ez_willis]

Some of my stereo tracks are on separate mono channels & some are a single "stereo" channel.

You can't have a single stereo track. You can have a single stereo channel, but a single stereo channel has 2 tracks.

 

[Dogman]

When I use my POD, and record both channels, I treat them as seperate channels....Sometimes I will pan them 100% to each side, sometimes not. Depends on teh effects used.

 

[LeeRosario]

try nudging one side foward a fraction of a millisecond. Throws stereo back into bad imaging...

 

[mixsit]

You can't have a single stereo track. You can have a single stereo channel, but a single stereo channel has 2 tracks.

Why? Would you see a problem for example with 'The kick and snare are mono tracks and the O/H's are on a stereo track'?

What about when you have one track that is a stereo track? Some of my stereo tracks are on separate mono channels & some are a single "stereo" channel.

You could consider tracking dual-mono. That opens it up to all the panning options; narrow/wide, left+center etc. It can double up the effects needed though. (or bus them and do the effects there.)

 

[ez_willis]

Why?

He said-

What about when you have one track that is a stereo track?

I'm saying that one track can't be in stereo. Maybe he meant two tracks on one stereo channel.

Would you see a problem for example with 'The kick and snare are mono tracks and the O/H's are on a stereo track'?

Not if you meant 'The kick and snare are mono tracks and the O/H's are on a stereo CHANNEL'.

 

[mixsit]

Or, I bounce my mix to a stereo track in Sonar. I have a stereo amp that is two channels.
They're interchangeable depending on what you're looking at.

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

I'm saying that one track can't be in stereo. Maybe he meant two tracks on one stereo channel.

To be honest, I'm not sure where you're picking up that nomenclature from, ez.

In general, a "channel" referrs to a signal path, and a "track" referrs to a recording destination (more or less.)

Under that definition, a "stereo channel" is usually referred to as a "stereo feed" or a "stereo buss". One often hears a radio or TV broadcast frequency that carries stereo audio information referred to as a stereo channel. But that's really ounly grazingly related to what we're talking about.

On the recording track end, stereo information is typically laid down in individual mono tracks, and not in a single "stereo track", but that has evolved a bit now. With digital NLEs (PT, Cubase, etc.), each track in the timeline (and they are typically called tracks, and not channels) represents digital source files. As there are stereo digital file formats, there are therefore "stereo tracks". Any single track in a digital timeline containing stereo information is a stereo track.

G.

 

[SonicAlbert]

In ProTools you can record a stereo track and still pan the two sides independently. I'm not sure how many other programs allow that. What you probably need to do is either pan the stereo track left or right as has already been described, or split the stereo track out into two mono tracks and then pan them.

You might also try recording more tracks mono. In some ways mono tracks are easier to deal with when mixing and make for more space in the mix as well. If you want a wider sound from a mono track you put a delay on it and pan that to the other side.

A whole bunch of stereo tracks layed on top of each other usually ends up as what they call "big mono".

 

[RAMI]

I think what EZ is saying ( and I always believed this to be true, but now I'm not sure) is that, even iwthin this "stereo" track, it's really a left and a right track combined. I think that's what he meant by "You can't have a stereo track".

I may be wrong.

In fact, I'll even ask it as a question. Isn't a so-called "stereo track" really just 2 "mono tracks"???

 

[cello_pudding]

in acid you can add 1 stereo file onto one single track. it shows the two wave forms with one above the other in one movable rectangle.

anways...

the stereo thing works, you just have to find where the focus needs to be. for me i think...sometimes the piano should be the focus, sometimes the bells, sometimes the strings, and the vocals most of the time.

These problems are fixed not in the mixing, but in the production and note choice. If we've heard a part a few times, it can sit back in our memory's mix a little more and a new part will be taken in. I think 2 stereo tracks coming in at the same time and then not breaking the entire song will kill how they mix in a listeners memory. maybe don't introduce one of the stereo parts until after the first chorus, or maybe make the 2nd part come in less often. if part 2 is a really good part...cutting down on how much its played makes it even more special when it comes in. your listener will like it and wait till he hears it again.

 

[ecktronic]

Id say its best not to pan a stereo track since this can cause phasing. Panning a stereo track is kinda like converting it to mono. It might phase.
Maybe better to take your stereo effect off your keyboard and play it in mono twice and pan to taste.
This way you will be able to place certain parts left and right with less chance of phasing.

Eck

 

[XLR]

Some stereo files are more mono compatible than others. I know the OP asked about keyboard and POD, but I'm going to talk about mike configuration instead. Same principles apply.

If I record an acoustic ensemble using mikes in XY, the resulting stereo file will be mono compatible because the L and R signals only have intensity differences, not time-arrival differences. If I use a spaced pair, it will get comb filtering if summed because the time-arrival aspects make the L and R naturaly out of phase. But it's the time-arrival differences that makes it sound spacious, so you can't have it both ways. I wouldn't sum the sides of a spaced pair.

You can also simulate panning with a stereo file just by adjusting the relative levels of each side, without combining them. No phase problems there.

 

[mixsit]

Since it's stereo, it's in both speakers, but how do you pan a stereo track to make it sit well?

Touched on already by others but to add.. consider what about the patch (or instrument) is making it stereo'. Is it feft and right hands of a piano, (+ambience or not), just a stereo effect on a mono instrument..?
Then look at it's size' vs it's roll in the mix. Often as not, pin-point is as applicable as wide.

Wayne

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

In fact, I'll even ask it as a question. Isn't a so-called "stereo track" really just 2 "mono tracks"???

It's a lot of localized semantics more than anything, but in most NLEs, there are indeed such things as "stereo tracks", whose sources are single entities (a stereo WAV file, for example), and are treated in the NLE as single tracks that just so happen to contain stereo information. In that environment, they are not two mono tracks.

Take it outside the digital NLE realm, and it's different. There you are right, Rami. Every track is individual, and there is no such thing a a single stereo track, just mono tracks that are (or are not) externally assigned to a left or right playback channel or panned to a stereo buss.

Yet another example of where definitions can change between the physical/analog world and the digital world.

Id say its best not to pan a stereo track since this can cause phasing. Panning a stereo track is kinda like converting it to mono.

In most editors, all "panning a stereo track" does is is change the relative volumes of the left and right channels. For example, if you take a stereo track and pan it hard left, all that does is lower the volume of the right channel to zero (plus any small changes in left volume due to the NLE's panning laws).

As such, to go back to the OP, no, you don't "pan" a single stereo track, at least not in your apparent meaning.

Unless, you have PT, where apparently, according to Al, Pro Tools does give you the option of panning the two channels of that stereo track individually (which is a rather curious feature, in a way); what you need to do is to either record to mono tracks or record to a stereo track and then split it to two mono tracks. As the latter is more work for the same result, I suggest the former. Then when you have two mono tracks, you can pan them individually as desired.

G.

 

[ssseals]

Great replies. You've given me some things to think about. I like the idea of messing with the stereo volumes of each track/channel to change how it sits. These are guitar & keyboard tracks, so when the vocals & bass are finished, it'll be more obvious what will need to be in stereo or not (I hope).

Thanks for all your replies.

 

[ez_willis]

I think what EZ is saying ( and I always believed this to be true, but now I'm not sure) is that, even iwthin this "stereo" track, it's really a left and a right track combined. I think that's what he meant by "You can't have a stereo track".

That's exactly what I'm saying.

Look at the picture below. If I wanted, I could bounce the 2 mono overhead tracks down to 1 stereo interleaved channel that will output on channels 11 & 12. If I pan it hard left it will only output to channel 11, if I pan it hard right it will output to channel 12. It will still be 2 individual mono tracks on one stereo interleaved channel.