How to spend money...

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wendellkdotcom

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Hi folks, I'm new to the forum (although not totally new to recording), and I have a very general question I'd like to pose. That said, I don't know how to ask it without giving a bit of background.

I am a singer-songwriter who has decided, after several years of playing, writing, and sharing songs, that I want to try to pursue a career in music. Last year I recorded an album at home (Logic, mbox,[now upgraded to firepod], & Rode NT5s, SM57) engineered it myself, but had it professionally mixed and mastered. I did it all for about $1800 (not counting equipment). I sold a few hundred copies, and broke even on the project, got a lot of positive feedback, and had a blast doing it.

You can stream or download the whole album here, using the widget on the left: http://www.wendellk.com/wendellk.com/Music.html

So I've decided to record another album this year and try to make something that is a much better product than my last album, and hopefully a step toward a career as a professional singer/songwriter/recording artist.

My questions regard how to go about making the record.

The album will be built around acoustic guitars, an old upright piano, bass (electric and upright), drums (trap). It will include horn sections (playing old dixieland jazz style parts), accordion, violin & cello. The genre nexus I am going for is folk meets Motown meets early jazz.

I want the record to sound old, energetic, and alive like the best old jazz recordings (think the first half of the Ken Burns documentary).

Okay, now to my actual questions.

The main question is what should I spend money on, and all the other questions are subsets of that.

Assuming I can get great players on all the instruments, what should be my next highest priority in terms of recording process? Should I do it all in a studio with a professional engineer? Do I need to record the rhythm section live in a big room like they used to? Do I need to record to analog tape? What do I need to do to get that horn section to sound good? Could I get away with doing a lot of it at home and hiring a really great mix engineer to make it sound good at the end of the process?

If I've got $8-10 grand to spend, what should I prioritize?

I know this is a huge question and maybe impossible to answer without knowing me and my music better. But feel free to ask clarifying questions and share any thoughts you might have.

You can download my last album for free at http://www.noisetrade.com/wendellk. Feel free to listen as a reference point to hear my earlier work.

Thanks for any direction you can offer.

Wendell

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http://www.wendellk.com
 
wendellkdotcom said:
If I've got $8-10 grand to spend, what should I prioritize?
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If you have great songs, great arrangements, and killer players who know their parts then you could make an amazing record in a studio for a lot less money than you have quoted.

Shop around, find a studio and engineer symathetic to your project and go from there.

I reckon most of the magic on the old recordings comes from intelligent arrangements, and skilled players recorded in amazing sounding acoustic spaces. I wouldn't get too caught up in insisting on recording to analogue tape (although if its a realistic option and you can afford the tape then go for it!).

Your potential music career will depend more on your talents a writer and performer than your use of specific recording methods.
 
wendellkdotcom said:
So I've decided to record another album this year and try to make something that is a much better product than my last album, and hopefully a step toward a career as a professional singer/songwriter/recording artist.....
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wendellkdotcom said:
If I've got $8-10 grand to spend, what should I prioritize?
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i'd find a decent studio and record it there. there's more to making a better than average sounding recording than buying the right equipment, and you didn't include recording engineer in your list of career goals.
 
G-Jay said:
If you have great songs, great arrangements, and killer players who know their parts then you could make an amazing record in a studio for a lot less money than you have quoted..
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exactly .
 
wendellkdotcom said:
Last year I recorded an album at home (Logic, mbox,[now upgraded to firepod], & Rode NT5s, SM57) engineered it myself, but had it professionally mixed and mastered. I did it all for about $1800 (not counting equipment). I sold a few hundred copies, and broke even on the project, got a lot of positive feedback, and had a blast doing it.
http://www.wendellk.com
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You implied that you enjoyed the process of engineering your own record last time. Why not go for it again?
 
If you've got the money, I say go to a studio since you're trying to make this a career. It would probably be less of a hassle for you and sound better. Although, I think that your last album sounds good...very intimate and nice guitar playing, but this new album sounds like it's going to be more complex. Nice job.:D
 
Why not freelance somewhere? Find a nice studio with the rooms and equipment you think would be best for your project and engineer the thing yourself. I know there's tons of places (especially these days) that will let you freelance for a pretty minimal cost.
 
wendellkdotcom said:
If I've got $8-10 grand to spend, what should I prioritize?
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You might want to first think about your overall, long-term goals.


If you are considering doing more and more recordings later on, and you are interested in wearing the engineer hat along with the artist hat...
...then you might want to spend that money on building up your own studio rig.

If you have no interest in the engineering and just want to play music...then spend the money in a pro studio, but keep in mind that later on if you need to do another album you'll have to pony up another few $k for that.

Then there is another consideration...if you want to really be a performing artist in the big/pro arenas...maybe some of that money might be better spent on just promoting what you already have, and then if someone big picks you up, let them worry about future recordings in pro studios.
 
If the goal is to make the best album possible for $8 - $10 grand, go to a pro studio without a second thought.

If the goal is to grow as a sound engineer with this one album as a "training afterthought", then start shopping for room treatment, monitors, amps, and mics.
 
Dogbreath said:
"How to spend money..."

?

I just give it to my wife. :rolleyes:


:D
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Maybe she's using it to secretly record an album with... :D



I know it's not for every musician...but there's that old Chinese proverb that comes to mind:
"Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime."
So I personally would always prefer to invest the money into more/better gear that I could then use over and over and over again.
I've also seen a lot of musicians spend a nice chunk-o-cash on a pro studio recording only to then go back to recording in their own studio down the road. It just ended up being a once-in-a-lifetime experience and nothing more...though that's certainly would not be the worst kind of lifetime experience for someone to blow $10k on! ;)
 
miroslav said:
Maybe she's using it to secretly record an album with... :D



I know it's not for every musician...but there's that old Chinese proverb that comes to mind:
"Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime."
So I personally would always prefer to invest the money into more/better gear that I could then use over and over and over again.
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This is probably the best way to go. And if needed bring in a guest engineer.



:cool:
 
Assuming you want to record all the instruments playing live together (as opposed to layering, which is more of a pop approach), then you'll either:

1) Have to record in a wonderful room with an extremely meticulously placed pair of nice mics and preamps. This will be very difficult to achieve the perfect blend of instrument levels.

2) Record, again in a wonderful room, but with a whole bunch of mics, preamps and A/D channels to match. If you were to constrain yourself to 8 channels at a time, $8K would not yield really top notch equipment.

If you were going with a pop approach of layering each instrument, you might get away with two channels of boutique mics, boutique preamps and an Apogee Duet. But I suspect this would rob the project of the live collaborative feeling I assume is part of your goal.

As others have said, go the professional studio route, unless learning the craft/art/science of engineering is particularly appealing to you.
 
Todzilla said:
…
$8K would not yield really top notch equipment.
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I think $8k-$10k is enough to bring key aspects of his studio into pro territory.
I don't see that he really needs to record a full, live band...actually, most Pop/Rock/Country uses the overdub approach...maybe just tracking the rhythm section at once or maybe a horn section at once...etc.

So at most, I don't think he needs more than an 8-channel A/D, some more preamps, and a few more mics...the rest he is doing ITB.
I think he can cover that tab with his budget.

Rereading his post...I found what I feel is the KEY sentence:

Last year I recorded an album at home.......


....... and had a blast doing it.
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I'm not saying it won't be fun to record in a pro studio...but once the $$$ is spent...it's spent.
Also...if your home tracks yielded the previous, well-accepted results...then I don't think you'll have a problem continuing along those lines, and either learn the art of mixing your own stuff and maybe just have it mastered outside...or do both yourself...or...go outside again for both mixing and mastering.
 
miroslav said:
I think $8k-$10k is enough to bring key aspects of his studio into pro territory.
I don't see that he really needs to record a full, live band...actually, most Pop/Rock/Country uses the overdub approach...maybe just tracking the rhythm section at once or maybe a horn section at once...etc.

So at most, I don't think he needs more than an 8-channel A/D, some more preamps, and a few more mics...the rest he is doing ITB.
I think he can cover that tab with his budget.

Rereading his post...I found what I feel is the KEY sentence:

I'm not saying it won't be fun to record in a pro studio...but once the $$$ is spent...it's spent.
Also...if your home tracks yielded the previous, well-accepted results...then I don't think you'll have a problem continuing along those lines, and either learn the art of mixing your own stuff and maybe just have it mastered outside...or do both yourself...or...go outside again for both mixing and mastering.
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You may be right regarding his ability to multi-pass the recording.

However, I challenge the $1K per channel to achieve pro results, including mic, preamps, and conversion.

Pro conversion is at least $275/channel, pro preamps (sorry, I like RNP, but they're not quite pro) are $800 and up, and mics as we all know range from $100 (i5, SM57) to infinity.

You can do good stuff with sub-pro gear, and yes, there are folks all over craigslist claiming their Behringer/Sampson crap is pro, but I think the true bar is a lot higher.
 
It's not so much the gear, but how you use it and who uses it.
That's why I suggested bringing in a guest engineer once you purchase the equipment one needs and along the way one will learn.
Then when it's all said and done you still own the equipment to do the next project and the next.



:cool:
 
I think we need to decide how far "pro" extends.
Are we talking multi-million-dollar pro studio...or pro project studio?

You can get a solid (maybe not the most expensive, top-of-the-line) 8-channel A/D/A box for $2k-ish...a couple of really good 4-channel preamps for about $2k-ish each...
...that's $6k-$7k so far...
...and for the other $3k-$4k...one high-end vocal mic and a few workhorse mics.
That's $10k...and that stuff will be useable for many recording sessions.

Plus...if you shop used you can stretch it even further. I check out eBay prices on everything from guitars to amps to mics to preamps to consoles almost every single day, so I know how prices are generally going...
 
ez_willis said:
i'd find a decent studio and record it there. there's more to making a better than average sounding recording than buying the right equipment, and you didn't include recording engineer in your list of career goals.
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What he said.
 
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