How to record band using my 424mkII

[Mr. C]

I'm not sure if this is where I should post this question but here I am anyways. I want to record my band during one of our practice sessions just to evaluate ourselves. I'm a newbie and have recorded myself using a couple of tracks. How do I record the whole band all at once? We have a bass player, drums, sax, and myself on guitar. The drummer brings in a small Peavey PA mixer, I think it's only four channels. If you need any other info to answer my question let me know. Thanks to all for the help!!

 

[A Reel Person]

The 424mkII will record 4-tracks in direct mode. Direct mode recording records the Input/Channel strips 1-4 directly to tape Tracks 1-4, respectively. Direct mode recording is not rocket science. Whatever's on Input/Channel 1 records directly to Track 1, and so on,... 1-4. Given that you have 4 members and a vocal PA, it gets to be an uneven equation, as to how to squeeze all these parts onto a 4-track recorder, using only 4 Input/Channels.

SO,... what that really means, is you'll have to pair two or more parts together, and a lot of your success depends on experimenting with what works best. I could give you some hypothetical setups, but it's hypothetical, at best, and still needs to be proven or disproven in the studio.

F/I,... decide which parts you can pair up together onto tracks, such as:
Bass paired with Drums, or Sax paired with Vocals. Use your best judgment, as to which parts would fit together on a track, and not crowd each other out.

So,...
Input/Channel 1 to Track 1: Drums, (with a single mic).
Input/Channel 2 to Track 2: Bass, (either DI or mic-on-cab).
Input/Channel 3 to Track 3: Guitar, (either DI or mic-on-cab).
Input/Channel 4 to Track 4: Vocals and Sax, (using a single mic to pick up vocal and sax elements, together).

This setup example keeps your drums, bass and guitar separate, which is something that will be beneficial in the mixing phases, and makes the assumption that the vocals and sax will not be droning simultaneously, but maybe will work opposite each other, in most cases, providing vocal and sax with their own "space", despite being crammed onto the same tape track.

There could be other formulations, depending on your best judgment, as to what works best in studio trials. Also, if you have a small submixer handy, the equation gets more complex, and simpler at the same time, with the submixer handling some front end mixing of elements, that the 424mkII itself cannot adequately handle.

THAT's ALL A HYPOTHETICAL EXAMPLE, above, but from your description, it seems that it might be the optimal setup. That's not for me to decide, though, as you should try a few different configurations out in the studio, and use what works best.

The only way to improve on that example, is to go out and score the Tascam 388, and go 8x8 direct to 8-tracks on tape. Since you just got your 424mkII, and are learning the ropes on 4-track, plus budgetary concerns, I'll keep my suggestions focused on the 424mkII and 4-track. Otherwise, my next suggestion would be to step up to 8x8 mixing and 8-track recording, that is, the Tascam 388,... which is a long term goal for growth, I suppose.

Good luck!!

 

[Mr. C]

I think that might work...

considering that the sax and the vocals are the only parts that we run through the PA during practice. So maybe put a mic on the PA speaker to pick up the vocals and the sax? We don't mic anything else, but obviously I know we will have to do that to record, unless we use direct input for the bass and guitar. I didn't think the guitar sounded that good though when I practiced using the 424. No distortion. But of course I'm sure there is something I could do to get that short of putting a mic on the amp. For recording the whole band though, I plan on micing the amps. Does that sound logical though to mic the PA since the sax and vocals are already miked through the PA?

 

[A Reel Person]

You wouldn't absolutely have to run the vocals and sax through the PA.

But, that's not such a bad solution, after all. Use the PA as a submixer, and mic it. If, on the other hand, your PA has a LINE level output, you could use that as a source. Make sure it's a LINE OUT, and not some other output, before you plug it into your Portastudio. I could also see where you could use the PA for a vocal mix, and mic the sax in the room, just by proximity to the vocal/PA mic.

The guitar as DI is another issue. A dry, straight-in electric guitar is not the most exciting thing, but here's where you could use your distortion pedals or guitar stomp box sound. It can help a DI sound, tremendously. I like a DI + close-mic technique for electric guitar, too. The DI + close mic can help liven up a guitar signal. However, if a live sound with an amp is more of a basic part of your setup, stick with mic'ing of the amp, instead. I can get a satisfactory sound with DI + close mic, but it's more of a studio technique, than a live techique.

The bass can sound okay DI, but again, it would be an advantageous place to put a DI bass with a pedal preamp. The close-mic + DI technique works just as well for bass, too. If a bass amp is part of the basic sound, then that's okay too, just stick with the straight live-mic'ing technique.

You can get adequate isolation of parts into mics, if you play with the strategic placement of mics, usually close to their designated amps, which leaves maybe a mic about 3'-4' off the drum kit to pick up drums. That, and play at a reasonable volume, not turned up to "11".

However you play & place your mics depends a lot on how big your room is, but if you place all amplified elements and the drums as far apart from each other, and close mic as much as possible, and play at a reasonable level, you can come off with a multitrack live recording with very adequate isolation, and a minimum amount of mic bleed.

Part of the "studio" technique of DI guitar + close-mic would work best if all players are functioning off a headphone mix. With too much amplified noise in the room, the close-mic technique loses effectiveness. Part of the DI + close-mic technique involves headphones, by definition, which is probably better when laying overdub parts, not necessarily live recording.

Bands can work off headphones for tracking, too, and that can give you more options for using more complex technique. Live-to-mic recording is still a good option. They both will work. It depends on what your basic sound is like, and how you're comfortable playing, as a band.

Lots of things about recording are optional, and bear out some experimentation in the studio, to see what works best.

I've done both isolated and live recording, with satisfactory results. I don't prefer one over the other, but it just depends on the day.

Blah, blah, blah,... before I repeat myself, further,...

 

[expansion]

if this is just for your own reference...

I would simplify this a little and record with 4 well placed room mics. Without knowing the mics you have available, and more importantly the room you're playing in it's hard give great advise but...

Position the guitar and bass amp nearish one mic - Maybe even point them in towards each other but keep them 3 - 4 foot away from the mic.

Two mics as overheads on the drums - (or a mono overhead and mic the kick or snare) But I think overheads will work better.

Leaving one channel to have a line out from the PA or another well positioned mic (nearish the PA speaker I guess)

Really what you're trying to achieve with this setup is capturing how the band sounds in the room. Nothing is closed mic'ed so there will be lots of bleed between all mics anyway but there may be enough separation for you to be able to play around with 'mixing' too. The most important thing is to take a lot of time with the setup. If you can put the recorder outside the room and have someone listen to each mic with headphones and be prepared to move the mics about the room to capture more or less of each instrument. (bass is a little loud - angle the mic slightly towards the guitar amp)

But my first point is what I really want to get across. Keep it simple, I done band rehersal reference recordings with just two well place mics in the room and got a suprisingly good sound and balance. With four mics you should be able to get a great live recording if you take the time to work with setup.