How to record and mix screamed vocals?

scdaymon

scdaymon

New member
Hi guys.

Once again, I really need your help.

I’m recording some stuff, and I definitely don’t get any problems while mixing clean and calm vocals (my own vocals).
(Usually a little reverb works just well, or, when I’m tired and don’t have the patience, I just fly for Ez Mix for some cool preset – Sorry, guess this is cheating!!!).

However, each time I try to mix screamed vocals (Note: not guttural vocals or death grunts and howls. Just screamed vocals… with anger and rage, but more or less clean!) I can’t get a decent sound.
It sounds empty, amateurish… without body, without impact.

Do you have any advice on this one?
At this time you know that sometimes I use EzMix (and probably most of you will not agree with this, ‘cause you don’t get to learn to mix :D.) However I can’t get this to work with EzMix.
By the way… I use REAPER (own an ALESIS io2 express, and a SHURE SM58).

Could any of you share some advices!
What effect’s should I apply on the track? Should I duplicate the track? Or maybe record again – the same words – and then overdub them?
Any cool vst’s for this?
Does the REAPER effects can handle the job.

Thanks in advance… any help will do.
 
I'm not that sure because I use different tools, but I think that a litte reverb can help (and maybe a second vocal, a calm one to do a counterpount, but that's about arrangment). Depending of what you want you can use a pan effect, also.
 
The Used - Sound Effects and Over Dramatics (COVER) - YouTube

If you like the screams in that i can tell you how it was done!

triple tracked, first off.. best take front and center.. 2 lesser takes panned hard left or hard right ... all EQ'd pretty extensively to tame it a bit... all compressed a shit load and all have a bit of added overdrive/distortion. all sent to a bus... in which they are Eq'd again, compressed again, given reverb and delay.

All mixed to taste.
 
scdaymon said:
It sounds empty, amateurish… without body, without impact.
Click to expand...

Is there any chance your voice just sounds like that when you scream?
I'm only asking because it's so black and white...you have no problem at all except when screaming.

Post a clip maybe?
 
I also have EZmix, and their presets for screaming vocals are pretty much useless. Add compression manually and have a fast attack. Lower the threshold till clipping, once it does bring it up a little to stop the clipping. I use a subtle stereo chorus effect, It will add fullness to the screams. Double tracking the screaming will also help.
 
When it comes to pitch-less vocals (screaming, yelling, etc.), double tracking almost always helps, particularly when it comes to non-professional vocalists. Additionally, a little bit of grit (either from a compressor that gets dirty when you push it, and/or from a *light* overdrive/distortion) can help add a bit of thickness and meanness. One of my favorite aggressive vocal plug-ins is free (Camel Crusher: do a google search). When you turn it on, it's way too much, but dial it in and you'll get some nice chunk out of it.
 
Thanks you all for the advices.
I'll try all of them to see the results. Then, I'll post back a result (maybe a clip to share and to determine the best solution).
However what's getting pretty clear to me, is that I really need to learn about compressor and eq. Those effects keep appearing whenever people talk about vocals.

Ps: Is there any place/a book/a "youtube video tutorial" that can explain how to mess around with those effects?!


Again... thank you very much to you all
 
Hum, I don't hear the issue. It is higher resonance, but that may require some EQing above 12K, it did have a strange sound to it, but that could have been clipping, compression pumping, not sure. But other than that,it sounded fine.
 
Thanks for your opinion DM60! I guess that by this time I'm also very tired of the sound and can't have the best impression of it!!! But it seems disconnected, and I just can't get it right. I can assure you that is not clipping, but it sounds weird for sure. I'll try your Eq advice if I can figure out my way through it!!!
 
Not being there opens near infinite doors, but here's what I hear.

Low mids n lows on the normal section. Thins out when you get on it. Hurtin for full mids and you might have a freq spike in there around 3 to 5 k.

Proximity effect? Ya backing off the ball to scream? Why? You can OD a 58 but you gotta work at it.

If so...Fine tune yer chain, including the physical side before the diaphragm. Pop filter. More yet.

But first, try driving the mike dynamically, on record. Slow ramp up to 'all you got.' Throw some markers in the file, at estimated quarter, half and 3/4 points of your ability to move air. Listen and/or view to see if and where you start 'clipping' the diaphragm.

While your at it, make sure ever thing else is clean.

Won't hurt to video it, head shot w throat. Watch mic distance and Adams Apple. You probably won't be able to quantify precise mic distance for full out vocals w/o distortion, but you can get a rough idea. That's where the pop filter goes, unless you stack em.

Now you know if this is a proximity deal or not, and if ya don't, read a little and then retest the mic for tonal coloring w respect to distance.

Now you also know how to set up with confidence that yer not gonna blow anything up. Push it. Make sure you aren't pulling back, effort or distance wise.

This is where to check the vid for adams apple travel. Up is bad, down is good. Whatever it takes, open up.

Now you can belt, but can ya growl on command? Especially at lower levels? Very rarely do I ever keep a full on scream. Its uncontrolled and it sounds weak, cuz yer at the edge of capability. Barely gettin there, ya know? Back it off one notch. Own it. Instead of reaching for it, come down on it from above. Kick in a little gravel, just enough rasp to let em know this ain't a wimp behind a stack of amps, and then give it a listen.

You eliminated or identified any prox effect, you bought the confidence to trust your settings and push hard, and then you backed off just enough to avoid the little girl w no nutz effect.

Its probably gonna sound stellar as is, or, at most, yer gonna have to counter prox effect absence, and thats easy.

Now, and only now, are you putting out what needs put out, maxing capture, and getting the best performance and signal yer gonna get w a 58.

Decide priorities and make room for what has to stay, by chopping what doesn't. Rhythm guitar is a good place to start if you need room for vocals. You can stack em if yer tight. Chunk chunk down low, meat of the vocals next, a thin band of pick noise and rhythm sparkle, next up the freq chart, with a nice vocal presence right above that.

Now you can decide if you need a diff mic. Yer not done mixing but you know what you need to.

This is where I'd start looking at comps and EQ. I often limit on the way in, as insurance...my mic stands aren't idiot proof, but my signal chain is. But I'd rather those lights never light, I want max options later in the process.

See what this gets ya an holla. Like the tune. Worth taking where yer wantin to go w it, IMO.
 
Oops...forgot sumpin...

I can croon all day, everday, but if I gotta push it, it takes 48 hours of prep, minimum.

Day one is fine tuning the take. Acapella, on record, half speed or slower. Exact pitch and expression. Copious notes on the lyric sheet. Listen, listen, listen. Eyes closed, hands off the mouse.

Second half the day, make the notes irrelevant. Master the nuances, full speed, three or more notches less than full out. Not the time to break anything. Listen some more.

Second day, duct tape yer piehole shut. No singing. No talking. No smoking. Rest.

Third day. Warm up, early, slow, easy, focus on open throat and precision. Do not push hard, but go a little longer.

Then rest some more. Knobs and buttons, maybe, but no singin till evening or later. Leave it all set, cept maybe for monitors.

Getting close to showtime, listen to something similar, pump the energy, but DOUBLE tape your lips first.

Figure you got three four takes in ya at this point. Make em count. Record everything, even mistakes, BUT, if it ain't there halfway thru the first take, shut it down and wait till tomorrow. Otherwise you might have to wait much longer to recover.

No mixing or sweetening till ya rest yer ears. Lessen you like the sound of shattering glass.

Get it.
 
Thanksfor your words Jay! You really gave me a lot to think about.
I'm a musician for a long time now, but I'm kind of a newbie when it comes to mixing stuff... and I never though of things like the distance to the mic (not clipping was good, as so as a little dynamic in the singing/screaming); that adam's apple stuff; the cutting stuff to gave way to what's important. All in all, that's for sure that plugins like EzMix really easy your way, but then we pay the price of never learning how to really mix and get the best out of what you have and want.

No secrets here: I'll have to read a lot, to try a lot, and probably to fail a lot...until I get the results.

Thanks again bro
 
Ticket to breaking new ground is trying, and failing. Till you win.

Or winning the Powerball, cept thats not a sound strategy most usually.

But I'm not sure trial and error is the best way to soak up a hundred years of distilled wisdom either.

Look up Mixing Secrets by Mike Senior. Amazon has it for Kindles, save some coin.

'Jay' is a privacy dodge, but jt works for me!
 
Funny you talked about Mike Senior's Book... 'cause I'm seriously thinking about buying it (and that will be the next thing I'll do...errr, when I get enough money for it!:D).

A last question, please: my interface (Alesis io2 xpress) has Phantom Power. I remember reading somewhere that SM 58 does not need Phantom Power!
But, now that you were talking about the SM58, should I tape with Phantom Power on? Does it provide any feature to the vocal tracks, or it's not needed for Dynamic mics?
 
No. Keep it off.

Phantom power hasn't hurt my 58s, and there's a couple Youtubes around of them taking REAL abuse wo effect, but phantom power is something you want to establish some hard habits with.

Not only can it cook expensive ribbon mics, but you can take out whole racks of equipment with it on at the wrong time.

I try to maintain several levels of safe practice with audio gear. I check master gain at minus infinity before powering amps and speakers, and of the major sections, they go on last.

Then I check channel faders and meters with buss faders at inf. I watch the channel, buss, and master meters as I bring buss faders up.

Not gonna go into precise detail here, because you need to understand, and correctly predict meter behavior, before you move faders, so that you get confirmation of gain states as and when expected.

When the whole board is dancing as expected, with master faders still at inf, I pull down mic faders for phantom powered mics, especially at DSP points and preamp pots.

Still looking good, on comes phantom, and up slowly comes pre gain while speaking softly into the mic. When I have it there, I follow it down thru chain, and only when it all looks good do master faders edge up. Thats the first sound from the studio monitors.

Then and only then do I double check headphone faders at inf, put them on, and VERY slowly bring up the cans. Monitor gain goes back to zero before the cans come off.

Pecking order goes:

1. Less sensitive equipment.
2. Speakers.
3. Expensive mics and, again speakers, cuz of max gain stages tween the two.
4. My ears.

I can think of exceptions here but you need to know your equipment and why one way is safer than another.

Mixing Secrets will open a lot of doors for you. Of course, once you open them, they may be hard to close, and you may look differently at certain vendors, advisors and even some icons. Some folks shouldn't be allowed anywhere near a comp or EQ, awards notwithstanding, but there's another level after understanding the rules in context, and that's how to break em creatively wo breaking anything else.

Short answer. I use phantom power as a safety switch in high gain situations, in such a way as to possibly increase certain risks, while mitigating others. Its something you want to understand and be as careful with as you would w 220, 110, speaker voltages, and loops.
 
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