How to record an audio track and what is the big advantage?

rdeboer

New member
You guys probably have heard this question a million times, however as my status says; I'm a newbie.

Especially when it comes to hard disc recording in Cubase. I just set up my gear after I moved and now I wanted to do some hard disc recording. After having tried to connect my sound card (Pinnacle Project Studio) to my mixer (spirit studio) and vice versa I do get some feedback when I open the line channels on my mixer.

However, if I try to record an audio track in Cubase my recording is to soft or to loud (distortion). I contacted my local distributor and the guy said that I should activate mutli-recording (?). I don't think that that has something to do with my problem.

Does anyone know how to correctly instruct Cubase to normally record an audio track.

Also can someone tell me what the true advantage of audio recording is? In what cases should you do hard disc recording...
 
Sounds like you have the main (left/right) output of your mixer going to the input of your sound card. If you do that and have the output of the computer coming back to the mixer, you're ringing around. That's probably why you're getting feedback. Try using a channel insert as the send to the card.
 
"Try using a channel insert as the send to the card"

What do you mean by this? From where to where should I insert what?

Channel insert as in a line channel from the mixer?

Send to the line out or line in from the card?
 
Tell me if this makes sense to you. Say you use channels one and two as your "input". Plug your mic's or what ever into these channels. Now take the patch chords that go to the input of the sound card and plug the other ends into the channel inserts of these channels (on some mixers the inserts are labeled IN/OUT). When you do this, the only controls that are functional on these two channels are the trim pots at the top of the strip. You now use these to set input levels to the sound card for recording. Patch the output of the sound card to two other channels of the mixer to monitor whats in the computer. The main output of the mixer patches to whatever you're monitoring through (monitor amp & speakers, PC speakers, etc...). Make sense?
 
sounds like a monitoring problem. Just make sure the outs from your soundcard arent being fed back into the computer , cos as mentioned before this will create a nasty loop, thus feedback. I use a stereo channel to monitor from the computer , so from the outs of the soundcard into a stereo channel , i have my monitors on buss 1+2 so i can just send this signal there or use pfl with headphones... I just make sure not to send it to the main mix , cos i have this going to two channels on the soundcard .. If i was to hit "main mix" instead of "1-2" then no doubt i would be in the same boat as u , and with two of us there im sure she would start sinking!!!! well best of luck , just dont send the signal to somewhere where its just come from ! asking for trouble if u do...
 
aha, so I must not insert the line out and line in from my sound card into the same two mixer channels, i.e. line and insert (I use the Spirit Studio).

What I do is insert the line out from the card to the insert of the two mixer channels and insert the line in to the mix out of the mixer... = ;-)
 
i havent seen the spirit , but i presume it has at least a couple of stereo channels... Route the out from your soundcard to this stereo input. I dont know if it has any busses on that desk , if it does then choose a stereo channel with a routing button to busses 1+2 or 3+4 , whatever the case may be. Then simply hook up your monitors to the buss that your using, route the output signal from the soundcard (to monitor while recording) through the stereo channel and direct it via busses (eg.)1+2 .. But DONT engage main mix on this channel !! Use this channel for monitoring the signal your recording. If you dont have the spare stereo channels then this wont realy help. But I actually use two stereo channels to monitor from the computer. One is the pre recorded mix and the other is what im recording at the time. It gives great control over sending a monitor mix to an artist. Sounds like you definetly have something wrong there , i think i understand what u mean , yet i dont cos by the time i think so deaply into it ,it totally vanishes. oh well!! Well see if that works anyway , goodluck
 
Track Rat said:
Tell me if this makes sense to you. Say you use channels one and two as your "input". Plug your mic's or what ever into these channels. Now take the patch chords that go to the input of the sound card and plug the other ends into the channel inserts of these channels (on some mixers the inserts are labeled IN/OUT). When you do this, the only controls that are functional on these two channels are the trim pots at the top of the strip. You now use these to set input levels to the sound card for recording. Patch the output of the sound card to two other channels of the mixer to monitor whats in the computer. The main output of the mixer patches to whatever you're monitoring through (monitor amp & speakers, PC speakers, etc...). Make sense?

Wouldnt this be eliminating the endless (seemingly anyway) possibilties of providing at least even monitoring mixes from the original recording , eg. busses , sends ...... eq. !!! Just wondered if that was what you meant.....
 
Spider
Not at all. What ever has been recorded in the computer and what ever mixing that has been done there is monitored in two channels or one stereo channel. The above configuration just keeps the gozintas from colliding with the gozoutas. If you have a card with multiple outputs, you can patch those outs to how ever many mixer channels as you have card outs. If you have a card with multiple inputs, the insert technique works as well along with sub group sends too. God that sounds confusing I know but it works.
 
yeah i see what you mean track rat... there must be a million ways to hook things up ....
So even though an insert point is basically a send and a return , the fact this return is not being fed back into doesnt matter then?? What i was wondering about trackrat is if u use the insert point of a mixer , and send this to the soundcard for recording , wouldnt you be cutting the signal and not allowing it to go through the rest of the channel.?? Cos an insert does cut the signal just after the gain and pre everything else isnt it? I was just worried u wouldnt be able , for example, use the sends to feed an aux in on a headphone amp... thats what i do to get fairly accurate monitor mixes for the artists... I know all desks dont have them , but idealy direct outs would be the go as they take the entire channel value ... I see what you mean and how u would do it track rat , but just seems like theres a whole channel , ecept for the gain and insert , that isnt being utilized fully... sorry but im probly making this all confusing ... oh well thats my two cents..
 
If you have a desk with direct outs (my Studiomaster does) then absolutly that's the way to go, but most budget mixers don't have 'em. In which case the inserts are the next best thing. Although when I track, for the most part I go to tape flat and using the inserts you're only going thru the mic pre and nothing else which, IMHO, is a very good thing.
 
You guys make it sound so easy and it probably is the most easiest thing to do, but i still can not get this to work.

If i understand correctly i should insert the line out from my card into two mixer channels (called line). When i do this i am able to load a wav file and get input on these channels. So i think this is the correct way to connect the line out to the two line busses on my desk.

Now this is the part where it becomes blurry. Where the f*** should i insert the two chords into so that i can record without getting distortion? You say when i insert them into the same group as my monitor outputs i get feedback. So i musn't do that. However i am able to record that way, only havely destorted. Even if i adjust the recording level to as close as none.

I have inserted the control room busses to my amp and monitors. This is the right way to connect. So this also works.

The only problem is getting the two chords that go to my line in in the right busses. Should i insert them into a group, i.e. Group 1+2 or 3+4, etc or should i insert them in the same two channels as my other two chords are? And should i then plug them into track send or track return?

I have tried (almost) every option, however still not the right one.....

Please bare with me and show me how this works. Thanks for your patience.
 
I've been busy lately and not keeping up, so I'm jumping in late. I have a Fiji card, which is more or less the same as a Pinnacle.

For the distortion problem, make sure you have all your levels set right. First, set the gain (trim) on the mixer channel input. Talk into the mic or play the instrument or whatever, and make sure the output from the mixer is not clipping. Then, open up the mixer application for the Pinnacle card. When you talk into the mic you should see the input level meters for the CD/Line input lighting up. Make sure the faders here are set so that the input level is staying below red at the loudest volume you expect to record. (Remember that the soundcard input is an analog-to-digital conversion. So if you clip, it won't be a warm, analog type of clipping. It'll be an ugly clipping. So you never want to go above 0db here.) Finally, while talking into the mic, check out the input level meter in the Cubase channel you're recording into. Make sure the level here is not too high.

So, all three levels---mixer output, soundcard input, and Cubase input---must not be clipping.

As for connections, it sounds like you have the output from the sound card connected right. Connect the Line Out from the sound card to two of your mixers input channels (or one stereo channel if you have it). Then, as you said, you can monitor this from the control room bus.

For the soundcard's Line In, you have several choices. There are some minor pros and cons to each method.

1.) You can connect the Line In to the Direct Out jack of the mixer channel you want to record (that is, if your mixer has Direct Outs). The advantages are that the sound is not going through the whole path of the mixer and you're theoretically getting a slightly cleaner signal. Also, you'll still have the use of the mixer's EQ controls to touch up the sound. The disadvantage is that if you want to record some other mixer channel, you'll have to unplug the cord and move it to the other channel. Also, you cannot record multiple channels at once, such as in recording a whole drum set with multiple mics.

2.) You can connect the Line In to the Insert jack of the mixer channel you want to record, as Track Rat mentioned. This gives you an even cleaner signal than using the Direct Out method (theoretically) because the signal doesn't go through the whole path of the mixer channel. But then you don't get the benefit of using the channel EQ, mute button, or fader as you did using the Direct Out. The disadvantages are the same as the Direct Out method above.
One thing to watch out for here is how far you push the plug into the Insert jack. I have a Mackie mixer. In the Mackie, if you push the plug all the way in, you cut off the signal from going any further in the mixer. I wouldn't be able to monitor my own voice through headphones as I was recording. So I'd want to push the plug only halfway in (one click). Your mixer might be different. Check the manual.

3.) You can connect the left and right Line In to two Aux Send outputs of the mixer. The advantages of this method are that you can decide which channel to record with out re-plugging any cords, and you can easily record multiple mixer channels at once. You can also easily direct the sound to the left or right side of the sound card, which you can't do with the above methods without re-plugging the cord. Plus, if your Aux Sends have a pre/post button, you can easily choose whether you want to use that channel's EQ and fader, or whether you want to avoid the EQ and fader to get a shorter signal path and a cleaner signal. I think using the Aux Sends is a more flexible way to go than the first two. The disadvantage is that you are tying up your Aux Sends which you may want to use for effects instead.

If you use this method, there's one thing to watch out for. Remember that the Line Out of your sound card is going into two channels of your mixer. Make sure that the Aux Sends on these two channels are turned all the way down. If you turn them up, you'll be feeding you previously recorded stuff back into the soundcard input and you'll create a loop.

4.) You can connect the Line In to the Group 1+2 or Group 3+4 outputs of the mixer. This is the way I currently have mine set up. The advantages are that you can record multiple mixer channels at once, and you can use the channel EQ, mute and fader, of the channels. Plus, you are not tying up your Aux Sends, so you can use them for effects. In fact, if you have a button that directs your Aux Returns to the Group 1+2 mix, you can choose to add effects to the recorded signal without re-plugging cords. The disadvantage of this method is that the sound is going through almost the whole mixer's signal path (you've added the subgroup mixer stage). This is theoretically not as clean. But for me, I don't worry about it. I have other sources of noise that are probably worse than this.

Again, check those two channels coming from the soundcard's outputs. Make sure they are not patched into the Group 1+2 or you'll get a loop.

---------

There may be other creative ways to connect things that I haven't thought of. There are other places on your mixer you could connect your sound card's outputs, too. If you don't want to tie up two of your mixer channels to monitor the previously recorded stuff, you could connect the soundcard outputs to your Tape In jack. Or you could connect them to an Aux Return. But this is getting way to long, so I won't confuse the issue any more.

I'm not sure I understood your last question. Are you asking what is the advantage of hard disk recording vs. recording to tape? If so, the advantage is that you get great sound quality for the price. Also, when you record to hard disk, you can edit and manipulate your recordings much easier. (This is another big topic)

Jim
 
i need help also where is emeric?

hello brothers. i need some help. i need to send audio from a vs 880 ex to cubase vst 24. i have a dio 2448. im going in coaxial. how do i set up cubase to record brothers? ty u guys are really helpful. you type loooooooong replies so i know im gonna get the BEST advice.


kotj
 
Back
Top