How to mix the Kick with the Guitar?

If the guitar masks the bass drum, you know you have way too much bass dialed into the amp.

For my rock opera, I set the guitar tones, and never had more than 2 or 3 on the bass, and I never had issues conflicting with either the bass drum or the bass guitar...I'd put a hi-pass filter on about 100 hz anyway for extra clarity and to get rid of noise.

My band, on the other hand, our guitarist loves his typical scooped mids sound, and his guitar just completly masks both the bass guitar and bass drum. Luckily our bass player has decent highs so he cuts through, but nothing can save the bass drum. I have to carve out so much out of the bottom of the guitar that I audibly change the sound, just to hear the bass drum peep through.

The key is to cut down on the bass on the amp, and to use a high pass filter, potentially quite liberally.
 
dyingserenity said:
Im having trouble trying to get the kick to sound good with the guitar. Do they have to be the same frequency or what?
Click to expand...

Are they both panned in the same position?

Does the guitar hit on-the-beat the same as the kick?

How much low end are you putting out with the guitar...is it some drop-D tuning with tons of low end?

But NO...they do not need to be the same frequency...and IMO, really shouldn't be. If anything, it is the bass guitar that often tends to fight with the kick since they are closer in frequency to each other.
 
Seafroggys said:
My band, on the other hand, our guitarist loves his typical scooped mids sound, and his guitar just completly masks both the bass guitar and bass drum.
Click to expand...

I'm half surprised by that. Scooping the mids on guitar makes it difficult to cut through the mix. Mids are the primary range guitars occupy. On the other hand, it makes sense because you'd probably have to turn the guitar up louder, at which point it's going to start to interfere wit hte low end stuff.

My personal opinion is that you should slap your guitarist.
 
RAMI said:
What does that mean? 2 or 3 what????:confused:
Click to expand...

My guess is that he never turns the bass eq knob on the guitar amp past 2 or 3.


Anyway, if the guitar covers the kick drum either the drum or the guitar have to be re-recorded. This is a tracking problem, not a mixing problem. Don't "fix it in the mix" or "polish a turd" or "insert music forum cliche here".
 
Yeah, the fundamental of a kick is what, somerwhere in the 40-60hz range? Whereas the fundamental of a low-E tuned guitar is aroundf 80. If your guitar tone is masking your kick drum sound, then you're doing something seriously wrong somewhere... :confused:

BASS guitar, and I could understand.
 
DrewPeterson7 said:
Yeah, the fundamental of a kick is what, somerwhere in the 40-60hz range?
Click to expand...
The tiniest bit of a fraction of speakers even go that low. I doubt most "subwoofers" that come with all-in-one surround packages go that low. No fundamental anything is down there.
Whereas the fundamental of a low-E tuned guitar is aroundf 80.
Click to expand...
In the 80's many kick drums were nothing but a short 80hz sine wave. Much of the "important stuff" in the low tone of a kick is happening a bit higher than that even.
If your guitar tone is masking your kick drum sound, then you're doing something seriously wrong somewhere.
Click to expand...
Yup. Two likely candidates: The drummer didn't hit the kick with enough balls, or you used an inappropriate tone on your guitar. All cases point to recording a part over again.
 
DrewPeterson7 said:
Yeah, the fundamental of a kick is what, somerwhere in the 40-60hz range? Whereas the fundamental of a low-E tuned guitar is aroundf 80. If your guitar tone is masking your kick drum sound, then you're doing something seriously wrong somewhere... :confused:

BASS guitar, and I could understand.
Click to expand...

If they're tuned to E. Maybe they're metal tuned to C or B or something, those are both in the low 60's.

OP: Tell your guitarist his awesome scooped sound sounds like a pile of shit in the mix. Even if he doesn't like a high-mids guitar sound by itself, it sounds great IN THE MIX. This isn't live sound, and this isn't a single-track solo guitar performance.

And cut off the lows on the guitar tracks. I put a high pass at about 150Hz on my guitar tracks. And the bass/mid/treble knobs on my amp are about 3/8/5 respectively. If he never "turns the bass up past 2 or 3", that doesn't sound too scooped to me.. What are his mids at then, 0-1? :p
 
RAMI said:
What does that mean? 2 or 3 what????:confused:
Click to expand...

out of 10. Sorry, wasn't clear on that.

Yeah, his guitar tone isn't 10/0/10, its more like 7/4/6, so there are some mids, but its a very full, very warm sound. Even recording with an e609, its still very full sounding. Gah.
 
suprstar said:
If they're tuned to E. Maybe they're metal tuned to C or B or something, those are both in the low 60's.
Click to expand...

Yeah - seven stringer here, I wanna say low B is around 64hz or so, but I forget exactly. Anyway, I'm in pretty much the same boat as you where even tuned that low a lot of the time I'll either high pass or do some serious shelving well above 80 - in the 120-160 zone, and often quite a bit higher on leads, to keep the low end clear. It's surprising how little of the fundamental you need - a good distorted guitar tone seems to be all about overtones.
 
Anytime I've had trouble with a kick not cutting through the mix it's generally because of the kick sound. Things that affect the kick sound are mainly the heads, drum tuning, performance, room and mic.

Kicks need more upper mids and air in the sound then you would normally think. Sometimes cutting the lows somewhere around 60-100hz can help the mids cut through. Heavy limiting can also help.

I also like to mix in the snare rattle with the kick. It can help give the top end of the hits some definition and cut. If you are gating the snare you might be missing out on that.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top