How to mix solo drums (and some showing off)

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Seafroggys

Seafroggys

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Being a drummer, for the past several years I've occasionally recorded videos of myself doing different drumming things. I mix the drums exactly as I typically do in a typical song setting, but things tend to sound a bit thin. Like, it pops out at you like I want it to in a song, but it doesn't really sound fat....doesn't fill up the space usually taken by other instruments.

I've tried adding reverb, doesn't really help. I just made a video today of a groove I couldn't play a month ago, did a little more buss compression than I might typically do, and I think it helps. What would you guys typically do if you were mixing a drum only track? I don't really just want to slam a hardcore compressor on everything to make it fat, but I'm leaning toward that route. Fortunately some of the stuff that Variety of Sound offers would work fairly well in this case (for the below track, I use Density Mk III for the overheads, and then the Thrillseeker VBL on the master, which is fast becoming one of my favorite plugs).



EDIT: Honestly wasn't sure if this should go into the drum forum, but I figured since this had nothing to do with drum gear itself and entirely with mixing I thought this was the more appropriate sub-forum. Mods, feel free to move if you deem it necessary.
 
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1) Awesome drumming.

2) Toms and cymbals in particular sound great.

3) If that's an apartment, your neighbors must want to kill you.

I can't answer your question, but I have some for you, if you have a minute... these are from a relative beginner with relatively low-level equipment.

1) Where the heck are the mics? How many are there? I thought I only saw one, and I'm not even sure if that was a mic or a part of a cymbal stand.

2) About reverb... Can reverb on an overhead mic make all the drums sound kind of "blurry"? I add it to the overhead to make the cymbal sound more smooth, but I think it might be taking away from the overall sharpness of the drum mix
 
1: Thanks man, appreciate it!
2: Thank you as well, but its funny because those are the two things that aren't closed miked.
3: Haha no, its my parents' garage, which is on an acre in the middle of the country.

1: They're magical! Haha, nope most of them are out of view. There's a 57 on the snare, which you can kinda see. Beta 52 on the bass, and a pair of Rode NT2a mics for overheads. The black stands are the mic stands.

2: They can. Depends on the type of verb you use and how much. People would typically use verb to add depth, and you would think with drums being in the back they'd have the most verb. Quite the opposite. I use the most verb on vocals and never use verb on drums in a song mix. If its too dry sounding, like you muffle your drums then record, I can see reverb being beneficial. But I use zero muffling whatsoever so I don't need to add anymore.
 
First, I am glad you put it here, as I am trying to better understand how to mic & mix drums. Had it been in the drum section, I would have never looked.

Glad you posted this as I am interested on reading other comments as well.
 
One of the casualties of my "mix for the song" technique is EQ, specifically high pass filters.

I guess there's really no need to do it, as the bass drum isn't competing with a bass guitar, and the toms don't really have to worry about clashing with rhythm guitars.

Maybe I'll try not notching out so many frequencies this time, aside from those that are tone shaping.
 
I wonder if you EQ out the high end on your Kick and tom (to take out any room in the track) then do light compression on each track for snare, bass, toms. Shape the room mics after the rest of the drum is dialed in to give it back some room and air. Then lightly compress to bring up the volume.

Just thinking how I would do it, not saying it is right.
 
Seafroggys said:
1: Thanks man, appreciate it!
2: Thank you as well, but its funny because those are the two things that aren't closed miked.
3: Haha no, its my parents' garage, which is on an acre in the middle of the country.

1: They're magical! Haha, nope most of them are out of view. There's a 57 on the snare, which you can kinda see. Beta 52 on the bass, and a pair of Rode NT2a mics for overheads. The black stands are the mic stands.

2: They can. Depends on the type of verb you use and how much. People would typically use verb to add depth, and you would think with drums being in the back they'd have the most verb. Quite the opposite. I use the most verb on vocals and never use verb on drums in a song mix. If its too dry sounding, like you muffle your drums then record, I can see reverb being beneficial. But I use zero muffling whatsoever so I don't need to add anymore.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info. No more reverb! :)
 
First, I think mixing a drum only track is an interesting question since it's not something that comes up very often. I think that part of the reason you get the thin or tinny sound comes from the high level of the snare in the mix and the ring. Normally I like a bit of ring in my snare but without other instruments in the mix it really stands out. Not having individual tom mics and relying strictly on the overheads for your tom sound forces them to compete with the highs from both the cymbals and the ring from the snare. I would try to EQ or tune some of the ring out of your snare and bring it down in the mix. I'd throw some compression on the kick to fatten it up but would leave the overheads clean, gotta let the kit breathe.

Again, really interesting challenge to think about mixing a drum only track. Also nice work and keep it up, let me know if my suggestions are any help.
 
I'm going to blame that on a miking problem. I didn't spend a lot of time setting the mics, so my snare mic ended up pointing right at the edge of the head, where all those overtones reign supreme. I almost always have it a few inches above the rim pointing at the center. I did EQ a bit of the ring out though, so its not as bad as the original.
 
Since I am a rock and country drummer, I would prefer to hear bigger, fatter, deeper, and richer sounding drums. Granted, your target sound should depend upon music genre, but again, there are no rules.

I believe a great mix begins with the tracking and of course, the instrument itself. I am a huge fan of experimenting with different drum shells, mounts, heads, muffling, mics, and positioning techniques alike. I've used kick drum mics on toms, guitar amplifier mics on snare, ribbons on Hi-Hats, dynamics vs. condensers, you name it, I've probably tried it. I've already walked around the room carrying and banging on a tom tom to discover where in the room it sounds its best. I've EQ'ed the living hell out of individual tracks just to make them roar. Hell, I've even stuffed small sound absorbing panels between drums to isolate residual ringing when gates won't do.

Sometimes recording ain't pretty. But the end result can justify any whacky idea. I say if you want a great mix, work for it and earn it.
 
The drums sound fine. Did you mean they are all on one track? I think the groove is always more important than the sound and your groove, unless I'm mistaken is based on the Chicago shuffle, a left hand shuffle. Only one suggestion drumming-wise. Try doing your triplet as RLLRLLRLLRLL and your right hand is always on the beat and your hands don't cross up going around the drums. I like the sound.
Rod Norman
Engineer
 
Mr. Froggy, first, great playing, nice swing. Second, maybe a little more kick? Third, Rod talks out of his ass. Fourth, you may want to try moving the overheads behind you, pointed more at the toms so they are more pronounced (can't really see their position on the video). Just a couple of thoughts. What do I know, I'm not an engineer.
 
homerecor said:
I believe a great mix begins with the tracking and of course, the instrument itself. I am a huge fan of experimenting with different drum shells, mounts, heads, muffling, mics, and positioning techniques alike. I've used kick drum mics on toms, guitar amplifier mics on snare, ribbons on Hi-Hats, dynamics vs. condensers, you name it, I've probably tried it. I've already walked around the room carrying and banging on a tom tom to discover where in the room it sounds its best. I've EQ'ed the living hell out of individual tracks just to make them roar. Hell, I've even stuffed small sound absorbing panels between drums to isolate residual ringing when gates won't do.
Click to expand...

That just seems like overkill. Like that one Mastadon album where they recorded each drum and cymbal one at a time, passing through with multiple takes. Seriously? Like, what's the benefit from going through all of that? Absorbing panels between drums? Does that actually do anything? If you spend so much time finding the right "spot" in the room why do you manipulate that tone away? Why not just get a great player, in a great room, set up, record, bam?

Only one suggestion drumming-wise. Try doing your triplet as RLLRLLRLLRLL and your right hand is always on the beat and your hands don't cross up going around the drums.
Click to expand...

Okay, dude, you know less about drumming than you do about engineering. Like, what the fuck, seriously? Do you know anything about drumming?

So now what if I want to do complex tap and accent patterns, like I do through this video? Actually, pretty much on every fill throughout this video. You can't do that with RLLRLLRLLRLL. That's only viable the way you describe it is if you're constantly filling down the toms, which may be what you're used to, but I find myself much more imaginative than that. I'll occasionally do that sticking if I'm crashing on downbeats and then doing taps on the snare with the left hand, but definitely not for that long. I may use something like RLLRLLRLRLLRRLLRLLRLRLRLRL.....how do you duplicate that sticking with your technique? How do you switch drums on the "a" of each triplet? You can't, you're stuck on the same drum that your "and" is on. You can only do that if you're doing slices, and that's only possible on marching tenors because they're tuned so high that they have the rebound to pull it off (plus you only have to land the second note of the diddle a few inches away from the first note).

That's really stupid and bullshit advice that limits you to do the same fucking thing everytime.

Also, as far as crossing up your arms. You know, coming from a marching background, I actually like doing that because it looks cool. I sometimes go out of my way to cross arms.

Fourth, you may want to try moving the overheads behind you, pointed more at the toms so they are more pronounced (can't really see their position on the video)
Click to expand...

Now this is interesting, I never thought to put the overheads behind the drums. I do aim my overheads on the toms, I really don't know why my snare was so pronounced on this recording, it usually isn't. Maybe because I really liked the tone and if I turned down the snare mic it didn't sound as good.....but I may try moving the stands back a bit. Wouldn't hurt?
 
It is best to individually mic the snare, kick and toms.

If you want a punchier snare - Throw a gate on the snare track so it shuts just after the crack.. Play with the release to adjust how much of the tail is cut. Then boost around 250hz, 3k and 7k. Add a HINT of reverb. Cutting around 700hz can help with definition. Use a thin band

For the kick, boost 70hz, 3k and 6k. Cutting around 350hz can help rid the muddiness. Use a thin band.

You dont need to compress it too much, i think clever EQ is key.. Also, the frequencies i suggested are just a guide.. Tweak from there.. Hope this helps..

The rest of the kit sounded pretty nice man. The RODE picked up the symbols nicely. Great drumming..
 
Now, now. Just because you can't take a compliment, that's no reason to get upset. It was only a suggestion.
Rod Norman
Engineer

Seafroggys said:
That just seems like overkill. Like that one Mastadon album where they recorded each drum and cymbal one at a time, passing through with multiple takes. Seriously? Like, what's the benefit from going through all of that? Absorbing panels between drums? Does that actually do anything? If you spend so much time finding the right "spot" in the room why do you manipulate that tone away? Why not just get a great player, in a great room, set up, record, bam?



Okay, dude, you know less about drumming than you do about engineering. Like, what the fuck, seriously? Do you know anything about drumming?

So now what if I want to do complex tap and accent patterns, like I do through this video? Actually, pretty much on every fill throughout this video. You can't do that with RLLRLLRLLRLL. That's only viable the way you describe it is if you're constantly filling down the toms, which may be what you're used to, but I find myself much more imaginative than that. I'll occasionally do that sticking if I'm crashing on downbeats and then doing taps on the snare with the left hand, but definitely not for that long. I may use something like RLLRLLRLRLLRRLLRLLRLRLRLRL.....how do you duplicate that sticking with your technique? How do you switch drums on the "a" of each triplet? You can't, you're stuck on the same drum that your "and" is on. You can only do that if you're doing slices, and that's only possible on marching tenors because they're tuned so high that they have the rebound to pull it off (plus you only have to land the second note of the diddle a few inches away from the first note).

That's really stupid and bullshit advice that limits you to do the same fucking thing everytime.

Also, as far as crossing up your arms. You know, coming from a marching background, I actually like doing that because it looks cool. I sometimes go out of my way to cross arms.



Now this is interesting, I never thought to put the overheads behind the drums. I do aim my overheads on the toms, I really don't know why my snare was so pronounced on this recording, it usually isn't. Maybe because I really liked the tone and if I turned down the snare mic it didn't sound as good.....but I may try moving the stands back a bit. Wouldn't hurt?
Click to expand...
 
Cute, Rodders, cute ! The jazz style one is interesting too.
 
Remember, this thread is about mixing a drum-only track, most of these recent suggestions are referring to drums-in-a-mix.
 
Well, whether they're in a mix or on their own, they need to sound fat..
Maybe for more cohesion, EQ them individually but slight compression and slight reverb on master buss to give the impression the whole kit is in the same room..
 
So made another video. Turned up the bass drum a bit, moved the mics around so the snare wasn't so hot, so its more even volume with the toms. Think I used a bit more compression on the master so it has a squishier, more filled out feel to it.

 
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