how to make digital sound like analog?

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chippedeggtooth

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I have discarded my cheap entry-level Fostex 4 track so I could utilize the 48 tracks available in my Cubasis BUT I loved the way the analog 4 track sounded (hiss aside), it was very warm and full--- compared to the recordings I'm getting on my computer which are metallic, thin, and hollow.

The setup I have now is with a Behringer mixer into a Delta Audiophile soundcard with cubasis, I record mostly acoustic guitar and vocals. The thing is, it sounds really hollow and metallic, and I don't know if that's the "digital" part of it, or the "I don't know what the hell I'm doing yet" part of it...

I've heard things about compressors to try to get back that analog fullness, or maybe it's just some settings I'm not doing right... anyone else know what I'm talking about?

I'm about ready to say forget the digital and get another analog 4 track, but with the investment I've made to upgrade my computer and the creative potential of so many tracks, I don't want to just give up so easy... any advice for me?
Thanks

Chipp
 
Thanks for the advice, but I'd be saving for years, perhaps decades for that.

Any ideas in the $500 pricerange?
 
Sometimes throwing a tape saturation/simulation plug-in on a track and tweaking tape speeds/etc.. will give you good results.
 
c7sus said:
"Hollow and metallic" sounds like you have a feedback loop somewhere. Like your running the playback tracks through the mixer and back into the soundcard...........

Well I am recording in through the mixer to the soundcard and then monitoring it at the same time through the same mixer, could that be my problem? Do I need a separate mixer for in and out? If not, is there a way to test if the problem is a feedback loop or not, and how to fix it? (there's so many levels everywhere: mixer, soundcard, and cubasis I have a hard time figuring out which to adjust)


Heinz-- Can you give me any specifics on "tape saturation/simulation plug-ins"? what would you recommend?

Thanks to all of you for your help and prompt responses.

Chip
 
Just to be clear- there is NO reason your digital setup should sound bad. It should sound head and shoulders better than ANY cassette 4-track. There has to be a problem in the setup somewhere.

In terms of getting a fuller sound- that has little to do with the digital medium and everything to do with mic placement, compression, and in some cases EQ and other effects. Its easier to get a thick sound with analog tape, but you can certainly get better results with your computer than you could with the cassette.

As for tape saturation plugs...check out this page for a good place to start looking for plugs:

http://www.slackmaster2000.com/articles/freeplugs.htm

Also, I'm not sure if your version of Cubasis has it, but Cubase 5.1 came with a tube plug called (quite creatively) "da tube". Its OK, just have to go light with it.

Have fun!
Chris
 
Can I ask a question? Why do we keep doing the tail chasing excersise? Won't an "analog sound" on your pc, sound like a digital sound on a CD? Its Friday, and Im just wondering what exactly are we talking about. Is digital sounding, the same as Solid State sounding? Someone please fill in the missing knowledge!


Thanks,
Dennis
 
Chipp, you may want to check out the various Joe Meek units, as the
compressor can help make sounds seem fuller and the EQ is nice too.
Those models would include the MQ3, VC6Q, and VC1Q.
One idea would be to get two MQ3's since they could be used in tandem
for stereo mixdown. They run about $200 each street price.
 
Tracking with a nice warm Pre is usually a good peice of advise here.
 
...check the basics first

..like Chris Shaeffer said, there has to be a problem in your setup somewhere.

1) Are you sure you're recording at 24 bit?

If you're recording at 16 bit, then sloshing a bunch of effects at it, it's going to sound pretty bad (maybe even metallic, thin, and hollow)

2) Are you recording at solid levels? If you're recording a weak signal (even at 24 bit), you're going to get very bad results - in the digital world, you need a good signal even more so than the analog world.
 
c7sus said:
I don't know if the Behringers even have direct outs from their channel strips.

I know the small ones don't... but the 802 at least has pre- and post- fader/EQ aux sends. I suppose the pre-fader aux send would work with minimal added noise as long as the channel's pots wont be needed.
 
Wow you guys are just a heap of knowledge.

so I guess you guys have convinced me to stick it out with digital...

FYI-- I do have the Behringer 802, and I've been using the aux sends and aux returns to connect to computer, and I've experimented around with using the pre-and post faders on the mixer inputs since I wasn't really sure. Could the feedback be a possible source of problem, as csus7 suggested? (I didn't know chords could be so informative)

As far as the VintageWarmer and the Joe Meek warming huts, how would I choose the right one? Without hearing them, without knowing what to look for spec-wise....suggestions?

I think I have a pretty low end mic, which I figured wasn't the problem since it sounded fine with the cheap analog four track, but I probably need an upgrade there...suggestions?

SeanMorse-- pretty sure I'm at 24 bit, but I'll double check when I get home (I have read the manuals and stuff, so I don' t think I would...but worth checking)

darrin_h2000: any suggestions on a "nice warm pre"?

suggestions? suggestions? suggestions? damn I'm so demanding... but you guys are the greatest, I really owe you one. Maybe I'll save you a copy of my double (quadriple?) album if/when it ever gets done... a perpetual work in progress....
 
PSP also makes something calld the mixpack. Its a tape saturator, a great compressor, a treble enhancer/noise remover and one called Mix Bass, I think. The whole set is $100. I tried the demo and thought these were incredible.
 
c7sus said:
Aux sends and returns are for outboard FX- not for monitoring or connecting your rig to the puter. When you turn up the aux level on each strip so you can hear it you are sending that signal directly back into your soundcard.

Use control room outs, aux BUSSES, or direct outs if you have them.

Getting this sorted out might solve a lot of my problem...

So on my Behringer 802 mixer I've got an out called "control room" and "main out" I can use as an "out" to my computer, which should I use? (the guy at the guitar store told me to use the "main out" to go to the speakers)

And then, to monitor my many-tentacled creation as I am recording, what "in" should I use for receiving the information from my sound card back into the mixer? I have been using the "line in 5/6"and "line in 7/8" and sometimes the "aux return" There aren't really any other "ins" on the machine.
 
MP3 clinic

chippedeggtooth:

you might wanna stop by our MP3 Clinic forum sometime and listen to some of the mp3s there. Most of the people will tell you that they record digitally, and you will be surprised how good their stuff sound. Just to keep you encourged.

AL
 
chippedeggtooth said:
I have discarded my cheap entry-level Fostex 4 track so I could utilize the 48 tracks available in my Cubasis BUT I loved the way the analog 4 track sounded (hiss aside), it was very warm and full--- compared to the recordings I'm getting on my computer which are metallic, thin, and hollow.

The setup I have now is with a Behringer mixer into a Delta Audiophile soundcard with cubasis, I record mostly acoustic guitar and vocals. The thing is, it sounds really hollow and metallic, and I don't know if that's the "digital" part of it, or the "I don't know what the hell I'm doing yet" part of it...

I've heard things about compressors to try to get back that analog fullness, or maybe it's just some settings I'm not doing right... anyone else know what I'm talking about?

I'm about ready to say forget the digital and get another analog 4 track, but with the investment I've made to upgrade my computer and the creative potential of so many tracks, I don't want to just give up so easy... any advice for me?
Thanks

Chipp

This pretty much explains why analog tape sounds the way it does.

I agree that if your DAW sounds worse than your Fostex there's something seriously wrong in your setup. I too have a Behringer mixer and find that it runs out of headroom rapidly as you near 0db.
 
Re: Re: how to make digital sound like analog?

M.Brane said:

I agree that if your DAW sounds worse than your Fostex there's something seriously wrong in your setup. I too have a Behringer mixer and find that it runs out of headroom rapidly as you near 0db.

pardon my ignorance, but what do you mean? that I shouldnt get too close to zero on the mixer? does that affect how close to zero it is on the Cubasis levels and the soundcard levels?...

I guess part of my problem is sorting it all out, I've got too many things with too many levels, too many places to check if something goes wrong, which kind of stifles the creativity (ahh simple fostex where art thou?)

But I know it's a learning process I shouldn't give up on too soon, everyone who has responded to this forum has showed me that, it is encouraging to see so much support, yet daunting: hold me to it, guys: when the double/quadruple album comes out, you're all getting a signed copy.
 
I run my setup through a Behringer mixer into my Delta 44 sound card... and it sounds waaaaay better than when I was recording with my old Tascam 4 track... *egad*, I would never go back to that thing...

This is my setup...

Input: Mic > Mixer (Stereo "Main Out"s) > Soundcard...

Output: 2 Mono outs on the Soundcard > "Y" adapter converting the two monos to one stereo jack > headphones/speakers (whichever I want at the time)

Sounds great.. works great so far... I'm just learning this crap too, but I'm quite content with the current set-up... I'll prolly be posting some mp3's soon...

But I did have a question for you, chipped... how well do you like Cubase?? I only ask because.. well.. I downloaded the demo and I couldn't even figure out how to "turn the d@mn thing on" (so to speak)... I use N-track right now, and that thing is as simple as pie,.. but I messed around with Cubase for an hour and got nowhere... I'm doing the same thing you are.. just guitars and vocals... so let me know if it's fairly easy to do recordings like that with Cubase... thanks.

WATYF
 
reply to WATYF1

That's encouraging that you have a similar setup as mine and it's working for you...

Cubasis: I don't know, I didnt have to read a 400 page book to figure out my Fostex... the cubasis has got quite the learning curve, at least for me. I don't really have any other software to compare it to, but I don't think the cubasis is the most intuitive of the bunch. And I wish I could use a footpedal to punch in/out instead of my mouse....call me old fashioned...

So you go straight out of your soundcard into your speakers? so that means you can't adjust the monitor level without adjusting the input level, right? I was told to stay away from that, that's one of the reasons I got the mixer instead of a pre-amp...but if it works, I'll give it a try...
 
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