How to keep sound from getting to overwhelming when all the elements come together

marc32123

New member
Basically, I have a song that starts with one guitar for the first measure. When the third measures hits a new guitar part comes in on top, and at the fourth measure and the start of the 5th, probably like 6 or 7 new elements come in.

I am just wondering, what techniques do people use to keep the sound from getting to loud and overwhelming when all these new elements are added? I have an idea, but I just want to get a new perspective on this, as it is really important in my opinion and something I really am not to sure about...
 
If I were at your place, I would have tried either panning technique or rolling off highs with some reverb or subtle delay or applying both of these together.

This will make listners percieve those two similar sounds having sense of depth.

There are many other tricks can be applied to similar sounds using volume, compression, modulation fx like chorus flanger, etc. It is up to you what best works for you...!!

Best of luck..! :thumbs up:

Regards,
Dee.P.tree
 
Guitars are difficult to work with because they are acoustically dense and can quickly overwhelm a mix.

Were I in your shoes, I would go to the back of the song where everything is all piled in, and start mixing from there. I would work on kit and bass first, then vocals, and get them all fitting well together. Only then would I bring in guitars or other instruments, and bringing them only up to the level where they contribute but don't dominate. Spreading them around a bit using panning helps find space for them. Having done that, you can go to the front of the song and see how that works.
 
...I am just wondering, what techniques do people use to keep the sound from getting to loud and overwhelming when all these new elements are added? I have an idea, but I just want to get a new perspective on this, as it is really important in my opinion and something I really am not to sure about...
To add to Gecko'z, consider whether - or how much you want these additional parts to build the track in level.
For an example of the opposite extreme- would be where one or a few instruments and/or voices are very up front in an intro, then when 'the band kicks in that intro guitar or what ever gets ducked way back into it's new place into the now full arrangement.
You can mix (automate) these in about any combination between the two-- The first insts can be lower to allow room for it to grow into the final full level, or start them hotter, but re-balance them as they are added in for example would be a middle road.
It also asks, how much dynamic range are you willing to -allow-? Wanting it always 'up front' -to whatever degree, is also a box that limits you options in that regard.
 
In case some of this helps mate, mixing has never been about how much energy you get from a particular instrument, its about how it all sounds together....just like a cake isn't about the sugar (if it was people would just eat the sugar) but instead the fingers that are licked and the decadent smiles...IN MY HUMBLE OPINION. Some of the best sounds can be created via reverse eq'ing, where you take out or subtract the frequencies not needed for the instrument to "sit" cleanly in the mix. With guitar depending on the sound and genre...this can typically be everything below 400hz and anything over 4 kHz. Of course when that type of eq is applied to a stand alone guitar it can sound thin. This is where my opening comment relates. If you eq the entire mix at its most frenetic part of the song where everything is happening and get that sounding sweet...then work back from there. So you end up putting back eq in certain instruments as they become more transparent in the mix (or stand alone if you like). Really this thought process should already be clear in your mind before even recording instruments...pick, swap and exchange sounds at the mic set up that match your end result-minds eye. And consider that static mixes typically bore the ear and people turn off to the song long before it finishes. Mixing isn't about setting levels, its about catching fleeting interest and keeping the audience listening for the next tid-bit you're about to reveal to them. If your song has a vocal melody then that is the most important thing and place all the other instruments around it...no instrument should be bigger than the voice and if it is then not for long. Also consider a smallish sounding beginning is great for dynamic expression.
I hope something in this makes sense and is of help to you. Good luck with it mate.
 
Wow, great information guys, thanks so much! The technique I thought that was used but you guys didn't mention was that of a master limiter. What I did before, and was going to do before I learned a new technique from you tonight, was to start at the beginning of the song, where the guitar and drums are playing alone together. I then tried to get them to sound right level wise in the beginning, and added the other elements on top without changing the volume of the guitar of drums when the other elements came in on top. To compensate for the rise in volume that happened when the other instruments etc. came in on top, I was just going to throw on a compressor or limiter on the whole song. Is this a common technique, or not really???

PS - I really loved your idea about going to the part of the track where everything is playing, get it to sound right there, and go back to the intro and make the instruments louder that you want louder, and then duck them down when the other elements come in. GREAT IDEA!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Yes, a master compressor/limiter typically does go over the top but you need to be careful how much you apply. In theory the Master limiter is to catch any unwanted over clipping so that you can bump up the overall volume which in turn improves you headroom but in reality a lot of people use it to squash and mash all the sounds to create a "loud as" mix...which is quite common in todays music. Also be aware that if you want to get your tracks mastered then you need to be even more careful how mush you apply...because that's their job..not yours
:)
 
You can drop a compressor/limiter over the master bus and let it take care of the levels at the back of the song when everything piles in. But I don't usually do that. The reason why is that if you have a lean start and a rich end, you do so to achieve a sense of climax. If the limiting is too severe, what happens is that a brisk beginning and punchy percussion get squashed as the overall level increases, and you loose that sense of drama, i.e. instead of getting a build up, you get a flatten-down.

If I get the levels at the back of a song right, I'm happy for the levels at the front to take care of themselves. I may use an envelope to bring up some instruments at the start if the difference is too dramatic, but I'd try and make it un-noticeable to the listener.

I guess I'm just re-stating robertrichards' points above.
 
Guitars are difficult to work with because they are acoustically dense and can quickly overwhelm a mix.

Were I in your shoes, I would go to the back of the song where everything is all piled in, and start mixing from there. I would work on kit and bass first, then vocals, and get them all fitting well together. Only then would I bring in guitars or other instruments, and bringing them only up to the level where they contribute but don't dominate. Spreading them around a bit using panning helps find space for them. Having done that, you can go to the front of the song and see how that works.

This ^^^^

Mix backwards. Mix the loudest, thickest part of the song, and then let the chips fall where they may for the quieter parts. You can automate volumes to fine tune the sparse parts if you want.
 
And this ^^^^ ...i'm surprised there was only one mention of automation. Remember you can automate effects on and off as well. You need to look into metering technique as well. The visual cues can do a lot to help you gain control and consistency in the mix.

...I don't know if I'd let 'chips fall where they may' though. It's your job to tell them where to fall. Figure out a way to control it.
 
A few approaches:

1. Write the music so everything meshes or compliments each element. . . I know it sounds obnoxious to suggest this but think about jazz or classical music. They effectively mix themselves with the way the music is written: So much so, that people who record jazz or classical very rarely do much to Affect the mix of the recording. They pretty much just try to accurately capture the performance in the best fidelity/micing they can. Even if you're writing rock, or rap, or country, or whatever other kind of music, if you think about the songwriting stage as part of the mix, it'll make your life A LOT easier down the road. If you're not writing the songs, you can still sometimes make suggestions to the artists in the tracking stage. Planning ahead is going to be your best friend no matter what you're doing. The mix doesn't start with mixdown. . . The mix happens from pre-production all the way till you ship off the final product.

2. Cut away un-needed frequencies. For example, cutting out a lot of the really low frequencies in a vocal take (if it doesn't change the timbre of the voice will help a lot. When soloed you might not notice anything, but it means less tracks competition for the same frequencies. A good rule of thumb is to avoid EQing with something soloed. EQ it as it sits in the mix.

Keep in mind, when you're mixing down to 2 tracks, there are only 2 speakers that can only move in one direction at a time. If you have more than one track trying to fight for the same frequencies, then it can turn to mud. If you're going for a sound where you can hear everything clearly, you may need to treat it a bit like a jigsaw puzzle. . . reduce the amount of overlapping frequencies wherever possible.

3. Play with phase. You'll recognize it as a button with a circle and a line through it, kind of like a no-smoking sign. That's a button that will flip the polarity of the audio single. It won't sound any different soloed, but if you have frequencies clashing and canceling each other out, then you can sometimes find your solution by flipping the phase of a track/or two. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, but it's always worth trying as it only takes 1 second to find out.

4. Don't try to make everything clear and/or loud. I've heard it said by a number of people over the years that if everything is emphasized, then actually nothing is emphasized. Some parts may not need to be front and center, even if you really like them. Are they essential? Are they just as effective barely audible? If everything's competing to be front and center, then how can anything really stick out? Dynamics in music can also apply to how you mix. Sometimes knowing what to take out can help just as much as knowing what to put in. Guys like Rick Ruben get paid big bucks to do just that (intelligently take elements out of a song to make it better). For example, when he got the gig to produce Johnny Cash's later material, his approach was to literally strip everything away other than the raw voice and raw guitar. He used minimal effects, and didn't touch any delays or reverbs. Johnny Cash had never recorded anything that way before, but it brought out elements that his other music didn't, just from approaching it in a different way. There's absolutely nothing wrong with "less is more".
 
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