How to do a satin finish?

mikeyhasnobones

mikeyhasnobones

"stop dropping my mics."
hey all,
long time no post, i've been without the internet for a while but im glad to be back! anyhow....
i'm in the process of sanding off the finish of my cheapie tele copy and was wondering if anyone knew how to do a satin finish? what's it made of? how do they do it? the neck of the guitar has a satin finish and i just think it would be cool to do it for the body as well. not sure if im putting this in the right place but figured i'd give it a shot! thanks in advance!
mikey
 
When I so satin finish on a neck, I just use my regular nitrocellulose lacquer, and when it is on, I wet sand with 320 grit, and then hit it with steel wool. This will shin up over time with wear, but it feels very good, and looks great. If you don't have a spray booth, don't use nitro, but do the same thing with LMI's KTM-9 or Stew-Mac's Waterborne finish.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
I also meant to mention that, while this will shine up over time, it has the advantage of not involving any of the chemical flatteners that most factories use, which will keep it flat with wear, but which also soften the finish.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
Most finishes in their raw state are gloss by nature. To introduce a semi matt or flat finsh you need to use an additive which suspends tiny opaque particals to the lacquer. These are chemical flatteners or what finishers describe as "solid content". When you buy a pot of matt or semi gloss these have been added for you. Sadly most guitar makers are after a high shine so semi matt finishes are just not available. I've found the best for this is a pre cat lacquer with about 15% solid content. That doesn't help you a lot but it is the only way to do a permanent satin finish.

If you do go with Lights suggestion which is fine you can get a decent semi finish by using wire wool. It will burnish up to a shine with use however. On the waterborne stuff be aware that if you sand through coats of finish when flattening out you will see witness lines when you hold it in certain lighting. You need to make sure that you only cut back the top coat and don't sand through. With nitro this isn't such a problem as each coat burns into the previous coat if you do it right. Getting a good satin finish is in some ways harder than getting a gloss finish.
 
muttley600 said:
Getting a good satin finish is in some ways harder than getting a gloss finish.
Click to expand...



Eh. They both have the same basic requirement - do the final sanding before finishing right, and the whole finish thing is easy.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
Autobody painters actually dull the finish before bringing it back to high gloss. I would go the opposite route they take- take your guitar apart, and start with 1500 sandpaper, wet sanding the body. use a sanding block and keep it wet. Just do the back. clean it off completly and let it dry completly. If you like what you see, repeat for top and sides. If not satin enough, try 1200, then 1000, etc.

The beauty of this approach is you can go back to gloss if you change your mind, or if you go "too" satin.
 
stevieb said:
Autobody painters actually dull the finish before bringing it back to high gloss. I would go the opposite route they take- take your guitar apart, and start with 1500 sandpaper, wet sanding the body. use a sanding block and keep it wet. Just do the back. clean it off completly and let it dry completly. If you like what you see, repeat for top and sides. If not satin enough, try 1200, then 1000, etc.

The beauty of this approach is you can go back to gloss if you change your mind, or if you go "too" satin.
Click to expand...

Thats exactly what luthiers do as well. Thats why light said it will return to a gloss with wear. Cutting flat is NOT a satin finish it is a flattened finish. All your doing is cutting back to a dead flat surface to remove orange peel, runs, brush marks, overspray, whatever. Once it's cut flat, motor finishers, guitar finishers, furniture finishers will burnish or pullover the now dead flat surface to a high gloss. The act of playing it will start to burnish or buff the finish in places of wear. To much cutting will also result in the problem of witness lines where you go through successive layers of lacquer.

Going from 1500 to 1200 or 1000 will not give you more of a satin finish it will give you deeper wider abrasive scratches which will look worse when the finish buffs out. You need to go the other way.

To do a true satin finish you need to introduce a chemical flattener or suspended solid content to the body of the lacquer. It can be harder to do than a gloss finish because you need to get the build even over the entire instrument or you can get bright or flat spots where there is more or less polish than elsewhere. The way round that is to reduce the amount of solid and build more. Not really good on an instrument where you want less finish than say on a piece of furniture.
 
Light said:
When I so satin finish on a neck, I just use my regular nitrocellulose lacquer, and when it is on, I wet sand with 320 grit, and then hit it with steel wool. This will shin up over time with wear, but it feels very good, and looks great. If you don't have a spray booth, don't use nitro, but do the same thing with LMI's KTM-9 or Stew-Mac's Waterborne finish.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
Click to expand...

I wet-sand/color-sand with 1200 grit with whatever finish I use, works great, Looks great
 
Roguetitan said:
I wet-sand/color-sand with 1200 grit with whatever finish I use, works great, Looks great
Click to expand...


Well, the main reason I do it on some necks is for the feel, and 1200 grit is way too fine for the feel. It starts to feel sticky again (like a polished neck, if not worse) once you get up to 600 grit. As for between coats, if you want to go for it, but you don't need to. Between coat sanding (at least with nitro - I don't really use anything else but the occasional shellac sealer coat) with anything more than 320 would take me way longer than it needs to, and doesn't improve the final product at all. Remember, nitro will blend in with the layer below, so all you need to do is get rid of the big dips and sags. Sanding finer than that with waterborne finishes may be a good idea, but I wouldn't know.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
Light said:
Well, the main reason I do it on some necks is for the feel, and 1200 grit is way too fine for the feel. It starts to feel sticky again (like a polished neck, if not worse) once you get up to 600 grit. As for between coats, if you want to go for it, but you don't need to. Between coat sanding (at least with nitro - I don't really use anything else but the occasional shellac sealer coat) with anything more than 320 would take me way longer than it needs to, and doesn't improve the final product at all. Remember, nitro will blend in with the layer below, so all you need to do is get rid of the big dips and sags. Sanding finer than that with waterborne finishes may be a good idea, but I wouldn't know.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
Click to expand...

Not really no. As you say your intending to get a flat finish on the the top coat and de-nib the build coats. I use 400 as standard because thats what I have in my box of Abralon pads. I use it on all finishes from Nitro, waterborne, Rustins PC and Tru Oil. If you get the build riight you should only have a bit of orange peel. Sags and runs do happen but I'll knock them back and recoat.

The heavier the grit the worse the feel because the abrasion is deeper and coarser. I really don't like dulling off a polish that should buff out for the reason we've said. A good pre-cat with flatteners is the only real way to go.
 
Light said:
Well, the main reason I do it on some necks is for the feel, and 1200 grit is way too fine for the feel. It starts to feel sticky again (like a polished neck, if not worse) once you get up to 600 grit. As for between coats, if you want to go for it, but you don't need to. Between coat sanding (at least with nitro - I don't really use anything else but the occasional shellac sealer coat) with anything more than 320 would take me way longer than it needs to, and doesn't improve the final product at all. Remember, nitro will blend in with the layer below, so all you need to do is get rid of the big dips and sags. Sanding finer than that with waterborne finishes may be a good idea, but I wouldn't know.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
Click to expand...
OK ya, I probably should have paid more attention to your post and I agree that 1200 grit would be a bit too fine on the neck however I was actually talking about how I do the body for a satan finish.
My Bad :o
:D
the method I mentioned works exceptionally well for a satin black or deep satin purple using automotive grade laquer based finishes.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top