how to cope with folkies when playing electric?

[cstockdale]

Okay, I have essentially become the producer for this local girl, she is a great singer, decent guitarist, and songwriter. In the studio, we work great together, she likes all the little touches and flourishes I put into her songs, and I do most of the guitar work.

However, when jamming, it is hell. She has no understanding of how sound actually works. On disc, she drools over all those warm fat tube tones, harmonic distortion etc., and she wants all those sounds, but as anyone who plays an electric axe knows, you don't get that sound with the amp on "2". I play through a Fender HR Deluxe, and even at about 4-5 on the volume knob, where that tone just begins to come through, she always stops and says "can you turn that down"... so I do, and then she says "that doesn't sound like what you recorded", and I try to explain that "that tone" doesn't come at low volume.

How can I politely inform her that she can't have her cake and eat it too? Or is there somethign I can do to keep that tone and bring the volume down... without shelling out a couple hundred on a Hotplate or Weber Mass power attenuator?

I am starting to feel like just telling her if volume is a big problem, she needs to stay acoustic, or she is going to have to learn how to take the volume generated while jamming with electric guitarists.

 

[Scottgman]

Tell her to buy some earplugs or go back to the coffee shop.

 

[freshmattyp]

The answer to your problem may be a Pod or Behringer VAmp. You can slam the input, and choke it in the output down to folkie volume. The VAmp should be in your price range.

 

[cstockdale]

I know, earplugs (the fitted kind) are the way to go, but this girl is one po' ass chick. Her acoustic is a gorgeous Larivee, a few grand, but all her other gear is bottom of the barrel junk (radioshack mic, 15W crate amp for teh Larivee and mic). I think she can go somewhere with her music, and at the very worst, it is giving me a great studio workout, and will get me some great tunes to add to my resume. I guess these are teh ins and outs of the production game, you gotta put up with those whiny singers!!! But, shit, I just got that damn HR Deluxe, and it frickin sings, and I want to milk that tone out, but at "2" on the volume knob, it sounds no better than teh POS SS 25W Fender amp I just got rid of.

 

[distortedrumble]

SHES A SINGER!

SINGERS ARE ASSHOLES BY NATURE! is the amp pointed in her general direction...if it is...point it away from her...the sound you get standing right in front of the amp is not the sound you get 5 feet away. and if shes short then her ears are closer to it....but thats enough of defending her.....get your tone dude...hows she going to be able to deal with anything if she gets on stage? will she tell the crowd to quit cheer/booing so she can hear herself and then tell them that it doesnt sound like how the crowds sound on tv during shows. ..how new is she to the "game"?

 

[cstockdale]

Turning the amp away is a good start, I can do my best to place myself differently in the room so that my amp is farthest from her, and then also turn it 90 degrees. She has a fair resume as a performer, but I have never seen her play live, so how "manufactured" that resume is, I don't know. I get the feeling she hasn't played for large crowds, as she has commented that in Toronto (where she just moved here from) bands are lucky to get a dozen people to their shows. (hmmm...)

Really, I am just doing this (for free mind you), because I just want to get my sonic resume flushed out, and she is (albeit a weirdo) a phenomenal singer... looks good in my studio if I can bring up a half dozen tracks of hers that I have recorded and played the majority of the instruments on. Whether she makes it or not, I doubt, sadly the music biz doesn't shine too brightly on 5'1" women who weigh 180lbs, even if they sound angelic.

I think in large part it is naivete, she just doesn't understand how an amplifier works, nor has she jammed with many bands if she can't take a 40W tube amp that is only turned up 1/3 of the way, I can only imagine her with some dude on a Les Paul through a 100W marshall stack dimed out.

 

[Light]

Get a little 15 watt tube amp. That way you can turn it up and still have it be quiet. That is how they used to record Clapton back in the seventies.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[juststartingout]

Pick up a BBE Sonic Maximiser and put it in the FX loop on your amp. Go try one at your local shop, $150 and it will crank at low volumn. It has a contour pot on it and it really enhances the hi's and low's at a very low volumn. It is also handy for boosting weak tracks when mixing or enhancing mics for a voice.

 

[Scottgman]

Dude... it sounds like she's pretty green. Besides, even if she's a great and experienced singer who plays a little acoustic guitar, that doesn't mean she's a freaking guitar geek.

I think you are going to have to take charge and refuse to turn down your amp. But you don't have to be a jerk about it. Just explain to her the characteristics of tube amps and that you need to turn them up a little more to get the desired results. Trying to work out different placement and trajectory of the amp might make her feel better. But the bottom line is that you have the guitar/audio expertise of the team. She either wants good guitar tone or she doesn't.

 

[cstockdale]

I feel like Goldilocks... one amp is too huge (40W), my other all tube amp is too small to jam (5W). Maybe I should just bring the 5W and mic it up.

And Scottgman, that is good advice too.

Thanks for the headsup on teh BBE, but I really want to solve this problem without any purchases , I have plenty to buy that is much higher priority.

 

[Richard Monroe]

Yo CStock! Build a "monster in a box"! Get the heaviest 5 ply aircraft plywood you can find, build a box big enough to hold your combo amp and a kick mic stand. Line the inside with 2 layers of heavy carpet. Put a dynamic in there, crank your amp, bolt it shut, and listen through headphones. You can put it in another room to decrease bleed, and set your levels at the board.-Richie

 

[SemiCrazy]

Turn your amp around facing the wall behind you in the clubs/basement/garages you play in.

Or

If that is killing your tone get a hot spot monitor for the PA, run the vocal and her acoustic thru it, put it on a stand and stick it right in front of here face so she can her herself sing and play.

It's hard getting used to other sounds new to your music. Think of her situation as if you couldn't hear your amp over the drum player and you have never played with a drummer before.


And a good way to explain the tone vs. volume thing is to relate it in terms of singing. She doesn't have as good a singing voice at a whisper as she does belting out her fav tunes.