how to best record acoustic guitar, harmonica, vocals all at once

W

Walter Tore

New member
I recorded this one tonight with just one microphone (michael joly oktava mk 219 into a universal audio 610 preamp) set about 2 feet in front of me at about chin level and catching the guitar around the 12th fret. . I am still trying to figure out how to best capture the acoustic guitar/voice/harp all at once. I do all my music spontaneously (words and music) so overdubbing is a no go. The harp highs that need to be cut also cut good stuff out of the vocals and cutting the boominess off the bass guitar strings takes away a lot from the harp and vocal tone. I also play bare fingered which seems to add to the boominess. I have tried all the standard mic approaches- on on the 12th fret, one around the bridge,figure 8 pattern, tilting the mics downward, etc, but these tend to pick up more harp/vocals that mess up the eq'ng of the guitar. A simple 3 peice puzzle that has been giving me fits for years...... I used just a barley audiable amount of plate reverb. This is basically how my room sounds naturally. Any suggestions are appreciated! Walter

here is a sample

http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=9799158
 
use more than one mic? maybe on on the guitar, one near your mouth. and if you fancy it maybe an ambient mic to pick up the general picture, gives you a little more to play with. you have more acuracy sound wise having 3 different sources opposed to 1.
 
If you are insisting on doing it all in one take, then at least 2 mics - one for guitar, one for harp/vocals. That way you can tweak the EQ individually.
 
I've never heard of trying to record vocal, guit and harp all with one mic. If it has to be one take I'd do guit and vocal together with separate mics, then another track with harp. If all three HAVE to be done together at least a mic each for vocal/harp, and guit.

Or, get an acoustic/electric guit and go straight to the interface with it, mic the vocal/harp, minimize bleed. And buying new shit iz fun.
 
thanks for the responses! I record all three at once because I create all my words and music spontaneously. To go back and overdub is not for me. I guess I was hoping for some new info but it seems what I have tried so far is all that is normally done. I like the 1 mic idea for the simplicity. The hard part is finding the right placement. Walter
 
Personally, I thought it {the sample} was well balanced. The harmonica was a bit sharp and so the only thing I could think of is to turn your head away from the mic when you play the harmonica. This only makes any kind of sense if you wear one of those harp holders. And even then it may be nonsense !
 
It's all in the microphone placement and learning how to WORK the mic.
After a few takes if you notice for instance the harp is a little to much back a way a bit when you play it and if you want more guitar in certain spots lift up to it.
Much like as if you were playing live ..... you work the microphone much like a volume knob. ;)







:cool:
 
thanks for the replies! I will just have to get disciplined and spend as much time as needed to find the right mic placement. I dislike doing this because once I pick up an instrument I want to start singing songs. I am cursed with these songs flowing out of me everytime I pick up an instrument. To do test takes for sound usually ends up with me singing/playing for an hour....... I realize taking the time to with the mic placement will aid my recording skills in the long run so I am going to do it. Walter
 
I think it sounds pretty good as it is. I have tried doing similar recordings, with one mic on a performance but never with as good results as this. For further improvement, play a little with your mic placement, or maybe on those harp high notes, turn your head away from the mic.
 
If you were using a U87 you'd could put it damn near anywhere and it would sound good. You'd have to work at it to get it to sound bad. I think if it doesn't sound great with one mic then adding more mics will only make it worse. Same for eq - it's got to sound great without any.

The trouble is that without knowing it your ear is accepted a $3K mic as the standard "normal" sound after hearing it on countless recordings and now you're using a mic that cost 1/10th as much and wondering what's wrong.

It's kinda like getting used to Dom Perignon and then buying cheap wine at Safeway and wondering why it doesn't taste the same.
 
when the ideas "flow" out of you then capture that with one mic as a scratch track.

then go back and redo all the tracks properly, ie separate takes of the instruments and vox.

this is the only way have complete flexibility when it comes to mix down and will most likely alleviate the issues stated above.

each instrument has it's own range and sonic character which can be accentuated better with each instrument having it's own track, comp, eq, pan, level, etc...

if you wont do this then you'll have to figure out how to play more dynamically on each instrument during their total interaction to capture it all with one mic (hopefully a great sounding full-bandwidth large diaphram condensor).

ie) if the guitar is too loud and harmonica to sharp, play the guitar softer and point the harp away from the direct center line of the capsule.

.02
 
thanks for the replies. I will keep experimenting with mic placement. The Michael Joly mk219 sounds better than my akg 414's. I know it isn't a U87, but I know I can get better sound quality than what I have now. Discipline is what I need. Going back and retracking is not my way of doing music and neither is thinking about body position to mics/dynamic range/etc while I am playing. I immerse myself into the songs. I lose all contact with earth. that is what turns me on. That is why I threw this question out here. I am sumarizing it will just take more time with set up. Thanks! Walter
 
dintymoore said:
It's kinda like getting used to Dom Perignon and then buying cheap wine at Safeway and wondering why it doesn't taste the same.
Click to expand...
If after getting used to champagne you find yourself wondering why cheap white wine doesn't taste the same, then you've overdone it on the old Dom, I'm afraid !
 
Kinda what happened when I moved to Utah, going from a large range of good strong beers to the watered down slop here. They limit the alcohol content here to 3.2%, it's diabolical. You can get real beer at the liquor store, but it's way expensive.
 
First you need to find a good room and the right spot to play in. If you get your natural reverb right you are halfway home.

Once you find that spot throw up a couple small condensors for the guitar, one in front around the 12th fret to get mostly guitar and one off to the side behind you to catch mostly room. Use a dynamic for the vocals, a SM58 works just fine.

Pan and EQ to taste and your in. I like a high shelf on the rear mic because it gives a kinda two guitar sound featuring mostly the bassline.

It sure helps to have a stereo matched pair of condensors. I use Rodes NT5's.
 
NYMorningstar said:
First you need to find a good room and the right spot to play in. If you get your natural reverb right you are halfway home.

Once you find that spot throw up a couple small condensors for the guitar, one in front around the 12th fret to get mostly guitar and one off to the side behind you to catch mostly room. Use a dynamic for the vocals, a SM58 works just fine.

Pan and EQ to taste and your in. I like a high shelf on the rear mic because it gives a kinda two guitar sound featuring mostly the bassline.

It sure helps to have a stereo matched pair of condensors. I use Rodes NT5's.
Click to expand...

thanks NYMOringstar! I will be continuing to mess around with the mic placements. The room has great natural acoustics. Are you a fellow teacher? I teach HS special ed here in Ohio. Getting out of music full time/going to college and getting my degree was the best thing I ever did. Heck, I wouldn't be posting here about recording if I was still full time music because I was forever broke. Walter
 
Walter Tore said:
thanks NYMOringstar! I will be continuing to mess around with the mic placements. The room has great natural acoustics. Are you a fellow teacher? I teach HS special ed here in Ohio. Getting out of music full time/going to college and getting my degree was the best thing I ever did. Heck, I wouldn't be posting here about recording if I was still full time music because I was forever broke. Walter
Click to expand...
Hey Walter. I'm a teacher of sorts now and then but I have a gov't job that keeps me busy.

I was going to ask you about N'Orlins but it looks like you've moved on. I almost went back this year but the oil spill changed my plans and I ended up in Houston and San Diego(nice place) instead.
 
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