How to approach my OH's with 8 mic setup

[geraci89]

Hey all, first off my set up includes: lots of sm57's, beta 52, and a pair of Studio Projects C4. Im recording in an unfinished basement. I have 8 inputs to use and plan on close miking the toms and 2 on the snare.

My question is: Do you guys think its better for me to focus on getting my OH's on just the cymbals, or focus on getting an overall kit sound? Reason being, will the kit focus take away the detail on the cymbals a bit? and that I would like the main snare sound to come from the close mics.

I've usually used spaced pairs but am looking at other techniques like XY and possibly recorderman.

I know that at the end of the day, experimenting is the best way to find what sounds best, but if any of you have a good idea for my situation I'd like to be pointed in a general direction if something I said stands out.

Thanks!

 

[Mo Facta]

For me, there's no way to capture the cymbals exclusively with the overheads so you may as well focus on getting the best overall tonal balance of the kit as a whole. Working from this perspective can be a revelation when you get it right. All of a sudden the close mikes become supporting sounds instead of the bulk of it.

As far as stereo techniques go, X/Y is a good place to start from a phase point of view, but I personally have moved away from that approach in favour of an equidistant spaced pair. I've found in collapsing to mono, the overheads are the least of my worries.

Hope that helps.

Cheers

 

[Guitargodgt]

8 is more than enough to capture a standard 5 banger.

Start getting the drum set to sound balanced in the overheads. In fact ignore all the other mics and get this right first. Aim for the kick and snare to sound centered.

Then go to the snare, then the kick, and all the toms. With the kick play around with putting that 52 up inside the shell. With the snare, avoid getting to much of the high hat in it on the top and avoid to much kick in the bottom (snares will rattle with the kick and that is unavoidable).

I actually like sm57s on rack toms, not a huge fan of them for drums 16" and larger but they will still work.

 

[Mo Facta]

To me, there's no other approach.

UNLESS, of course, you're using a pair of room mikes, which gives you a comprehensive kit sound to supplement the overheads (depending on how big your room is and how far away the mikes are). At that point the overheads ALMOST become solely for the cymbals but I try not to think about it that way.

Another way to approach overheads is to set them up at ear's height or a little higher (experiment) in front of the kit. William Wittman does it this way (with Coles ribbons, I think) but I'm not sure what configuration he uses. This is sort of in between overheads and room mikes and gives you a great image of the kit as a whole. In my experience it accentuates the kick, snare and toms a bit more than traditional overheads but that isn't a bad thing and if your mikes are decent, you may get a great kit sound just from those two mikes.

Finally, I just want to say one thing.

We need to break our habits of convention. People thinking of overheads being purely for the cymbals is one of them. I've always been in favour of knowing your tools BEFORE placing them and when it comes to microphones, knowing their pick up and polar patterns is a good start and knowing their tonal characteristics is even better. There are NO hard and fast rules in recording and, to me, that opens up a HUGE amount of options and experimentation. On the other hand, one of the great small pleasures in life is placing a microphone you know nothing about (besides maybe the pickup pattern) in front of a source, and putting up the fader. It's discovery. If I place a microphone somewhere and I think the sound can improve, I simply stop and move the microphone and we try again. It's really that simple. I've never really been one to get an assistant to move the microphone while the musician is playing, firstly because you need three people to do it, and secondly because I feel the comb filtering effect that you get from moving the mike around an active source can be just as hit-or-miss in context. When it comes to guitar miking, I doubt it gets simpler. If you want a brighter sound, move it towards the center of the cone. If you want a duller sound, move it towards the outside of the cone. If you've got a decent player with a good tone, the job is easy.

A good recording is simply fundamental concepts well executed. It's not rocket surgery, but you can do a lot of damage with a scalpel and a vat of rocket fuel.

Cheers

 

[geraci89]

thanks for the tips guys. I've never really done too much in terms of experimenting so I know a few good hours of movement and listening will give me a more specific answer as to what will work for me. To date I've usually just spaced them out over the general left/right areas. Here's probably the best drum sound I've gotten so far:

"Nelly- Pimp Juice" (Cover + Drums Remix) - YouTube

The BIGGEST thing I've learned from a bad paid recording experience was simply to get the drums sounding the way I wanted them BEFORE hitting record.

I plan on making a solo record with the piles of unfinished song ideas I have so im trying to get a head start on getting the quality where Im gonna want it.

 

[Guitargodgt]

thanks for the tips guys. I've never really done too much in terms of experimenting so I know a few good hours of movement and listening will give me a more specific answer as to what will work for me. To date I've usually just spaced them out over the general left/right areas. Here's probably the best drum sound I've gotten so far:

"Nelly- Pimp Juice" (Cover + Drums Remix) - YouTube

The BIGGEST thing I've learned from a bad paid recording experience was simply to get the drums sounding the way I wanted them BEFORE hitting record.

I plan on making a solo record with the piles of unfinished song ideas I have so im trying to get a head start on getting the quality where Im gonna want it.

That actually sounds good. But if you have a listen in headphones you can hear the snare is off center, and IMO the snare and kick should be driven right up the center unless your going for something else on purpose. That's why I recommend starting with the OH and then working with the rest of the mics.

 

[geraci89]

Thanks! Yeah Snares always been my weakness. Never really pounds down the middle like I want it to. I think just working with the overheads first is the best advice I can work with right now. After all, it should technically only get better from then on with the close mics right?

Thanks for the tips!

 

[RAMI]

I think just working with the overheads first is the best advice I can work with right now. After all, it should technically only get better from then on with the close mics right?

It could, but it might not. The more mics, the more chance of phase cancellation. Some people prefer using 4 mics (2 overheads, kik, snare) rather than close micing everything.

 

[Lt. Bob]

It could, but it might not. The more mics, the more chance of phase cancellation. Some people prefer using 4 mics (2 overheads, kik, snare) rather than close micing everything.

And I used to even use just three .... a kik and two Crown boundary mics on stands set to pick up the entire set.