How to add a nice UMph to my toms?

[ChaoticDrummr24]

Hello, my friend and I are just messing around with recoridng right now and want to know how we can add nice tone to my toms, forexample, right now when we record they sound flat and dull, like u only hear the inital attack on the heads nothing really after. And when i put my headphones on i can hear the inital attack and this nice tone after wards, How do i achieve something like that. i've tried eq'ing and it brings that Umph out but doens't really do it the way i want.. My drums are in tune and eveyrhing, SOmeone let me know, And what i mean by the headphones sound, it bascially sounds liek the toms from Metallica's the Black Album. Alright thanks guy

 

[Licketysplit]

Run the drum tracks through a compressor, which should add some warmth, as well as keeping everything the right level. And do you have proper studio monitors or are you just playing it through any old speakers? Because of course that will have an effect on how pure the sound is. You want the purest sound possible, no bass enhancer or anything.

Maybe its the way you've miced the toms too, or maybe everything else is overpowering it. And also, maybe try tuning the drums to how you want them to sound on the record, rather than modifying it afterwards. Unless you have already done that. Maybe you have a 2ply head thats restricting the overtones and sustain of the drum, try some single ply heads if you want more sustain.

 

[I M Green]

What kind of heads do you have on the toms? My first guess is your drum heads are too heavy. Use Remo Ambassadors or Evans G1s.

Cheers
Iain

 

[Bdrum]

Drums

Hello, my friend and I are just messing around with recoridng right now and want to know how we can add nice tone to my toms, forexample, right now when we record they sound flat and dull, like u only hear the inital attack on the heads nothing really after. And when i put my headphones on i can hear the inital attack and this nice tone after wards, How do i achieve something like that. i've tried eq'ing and it brings that Umph out but doens't really do it the way i want.. My drums are in tune and eveyrhing, SOmeone let me know, And what i mean by the headphones sound, it bascially sounds liek the toms from Metallica's the Black Album. Alright thanks guy

What board or DAW are you using?
Maybe the Pres arent that good.

 

[PhilGood]

First off, we have no way of correcting the problem without knowing your setup. What mics are you using? How many? What are the overheads? What are you using on the toms, snare, kick, etc. What heads are you using? Are you using a mixer? What is the room like?

EQ is bad. You shouldn't need to EQ too much if you are doing things right. Position of the mics is the key. Compression can make things sound better, but only if you're doing things right in the first place.

 

[knuckledragger]

PhillGood is absolutely right!!!

POO IN=POO OUT

Get the best sound you can before you put it on tape. Don't think you can just "fix it in the mix". If you need to eq; use the same settings on each tom so there will be continuity making it sound like the same kit. Pan them out too! I usually will take the outputs of the toms and send them to a stereo aux with eq and compression to taste. That way the setting is the same on each and I only need to use two plugins rather than 6.

 

[Shellshock Roge]

You might want to try putting the mic up to the resonant head.

 

[ChaoticDrummr24]

Alright here' smy setup

Its a ludwig rocker, with Remo Emperors on the top Clear, and Remo Emperors on the bottom. The mics i'm using are audixs, F10,s and F12's for the toms... PG52beta for bass, F10 for the snares, and for the Overheads two F15's. The room is well insulated, not much reverb in here at all , The mixer is a Behringer Eurodesk SL2442FX-PRO Mixer 16 Mic inputs. So any sugesstions would be nice , i'll try putting them on the resos. Btw i've also tried Coated Emperors on both top and bottom, and also have triedclear emperers on top and then evans G2's on the bottom that used to be my orignal setup. I just want a nice warm clean tone, Not a sound like hitting paper on the heads, and there all fairly new. How would i be able to compress it? Sorry about all this, I just really want this sound so bad, my friend and i have been recording bands, usually through the same setup and it all runs into my computer and recored through audition there we clean up vocals and guitars and all that. We never have any problems with drums until my set LOl. We just can't figure it out. Its probally something with not placing them right and not having the right heads.. but thanks guy and keep on helping Oh wait another thing its all being recorded into a Audigy 2 ZS, so it allthe levels have be to done before i can record , unless u guys know of a cheap effective way where i can hook up loike 8 mics to my computer

 

[RecordingMaster]

Its a ludwig rocker...

This might be your problem, your drums. Although Ludwig manufactures some great drums, I play a Ludwig Rocker Elite out of the studio, just to bang around with, and the toms specifically sound a little more dead/more contained than my Tamas or any other good drums I've used. I've tried tuning them really high, and low, etc., nothing seems to bring out much volume and/or sustain.

Try G1s (1ply) if you can't afford to buy new drums.

 

[Licketysplit]

Or try coated Remo Ambassadors on top and clear ambassadors on the bottom for a warm tone.

 

[HangDawg]

Its a ludwig rocker, with Remo Emperors on the top Clear, and Remo Emperors on the bottom. The mics i'm using are audixs, F10,s and F12's for the toms... PG52beta for bass, F10 for the snares, and for the Overheads two F15's. The room is well insulated, not much reverb in here at all , The mixer is a Behringer Eurodesk SL2442FX-PRO Mixer 16 Mic inputs. So any sugesstions would be nice , i'll try putting them on the resos. Btw i've also tried Coated Emperors on both top and bottom, and also have triedclear emperers on top and then evans G2's on the bottom that used to be my orignal setup. I just want a nice warm clean tone, Not a sound like hitting paper on the heads, and there all fairly new. How would i be able to compress it? Sorry about all this, I just really want this sound so bad, my friend and i have been recording bands, usually through the same setup and it all runs into my computer and recored through audition there we clean up vocals and guitars and all that. We never have any problems with drums until my set LOl. We just can't figure it out. Its probally something with not placing them right and not having the right heads.. but thanks guy and keep on helping Oh wait another thing its all being recorded into a Audigy 2 ZS, so it allthe levels have be to done before i can record , unless u guys know of a cheap effective way where i can hook up loike 8 mics to my computer

Basically you are recording crappy drums that may or may not be tuned, CORRECTLY with shitty mics into an even shittier board and top it off by running it into a gamer audio card and you wonder why it doesn't sound like Metallica?

Sorry, it's not going to happen.

 

[ChaoticDrummr24]

thanks guys for the help, well i played around with some coated, and clear's of remos and actually got them to sound pretty close to what i wanted , so i'm pretty happy with the result so far, thanks for everyones help, oh yeah I realize metallica's sound is also done with deep starclassic tama set, so i know its almost impossible to reach a sound like that really, but i've been playing with it and got it sound deep and warm to the way i wanted it so it all works out > and Sorry Hangdawg i can't afford sweet shit like you.. I have college, bills and tons of other things that come before sound equipment

 

[theletterq]

The double-ply Emporer as a resonant head sounds like the main problem. The Ludwigs would probably benefit with a double ply on top single ply on the bottom...

 

[astoebe]

i would say once you get the toms sounding a little better (first priority) work a little with some reverb to try to get it tailing off a little....also, perhaps work with room mics (although i think you said that the room is pretty dead, so it might not add to the fullness)

 

[Tim Brown]

The double-ply Emporer as a resonant head sounds like the main problem. The Ludwigs would probably benefit with a double ply on top single ply on the bottom...

Exactly what I was thinking. I hate Emperor heads on the resonant side of the drums. I always prefer a thinner head on the resonant side of the drum,the thinner the better. My favorite combinations are Diplomat resonant heads with Ambassador batter heads, because they have a great punch to them, or Ambassador rasonants, with emperor or preferably pinstripes on the batter side. I don't like Ambasadors on both sides of the drum at the same time. I've never tried a diplomat on both sides, althought I think that probably wouldn't have enough sustain or "endurance" for me, but I'll be it would sound killer.

The Ludwig Rockers should be fine as long as the bearing edge is clean and the drum is round.


Tim

 

[mjau]

Basically you are recording crappy drums that may or may not be tuned, CORRECTLY with shitty mics into an even shittier board and top it off by running it into a gamer audio card and you wonder why it doesn't sound like Metallica?

Sorry, it's not going to happen.

Might not sound like Metallica, but you can still get it to sound good to your ears. Compression and eq are your friends here, but first try new heads and/or tuning the drums so they record well (which is not necessarily tuning them so they sound great live).

 

[Dr ZEE]

thanks guys for the help,.....

right...

I'd say this first: completely ignore those guys who are telling you that your problem is your "crappy drums". Just ignore them, period. I personally give no flying poo if I make someone going bananza, by saying this. I'm sorry, but you guys with "top of the line drums" can keep that "advice" (ala "Get a Faster car, dude") for your girlfriends. It does not really help at all, plus may confuse and actually mislead a person who is asking for helpful advice.
okey, then... arghhhhhhhhh

ChaoticDrummr24, don't give up yet on trying to capture the sound. In general if you hear your drums "playing" right , then there must be a way to capture this sound. Well, it may be somewhat hard task, thou... In general what you hear while playing and then what's "going" into your mics is not the same 'thing' ... Then your mics also "capture" or "reject" what's "going" into mics in their 'own specific way' (another words 'mics' hear the sound the way they are designed/made). And then of course pre-rec processing and your actual recording device may and does affect the result. So keepping this in mind try to follow the "chain" and experiment/compare.
I'd start with trying different heads (G1(s) is a good idea to try from my experience, but I don't have much experience with other heads), then I'd say you sure need to experiment with mic placement, for example the distance between mic and head may actually affect allot how the mic "captures" sound. Play with overheads also.
I'd say it was a good advice on basically trying to get the best sound (recording) as possible without applying any eq/compression, but it does not mean, that you simply MUST get it 100% right without any processing.
So when you feel like you did the best on drums/heads/tuning and then on mic placement - then try to apply some pre-record eq on selected mics/channels and/or compression if you wish to try it. This all takes time really experimenting and finding the best set-up for your specific drum-kit/your room, your playing style/techniques and your taste of course. When recording drums, too many components must come together into some sort of "optimum combination". Also there's nothing wrong with having hard time to get it "right".

Your mics are fine to do the work. Some guys will tell you, that your mics are 'crappy' as well..heh heh. There always will be something else to blame out there

/respects

 

[mjau]

right...

I'd say this first: completely ignore those guys who are telling you that your problem is your "crappy drums". Just ignore them, period. I personally give no flying poo if I make someone going bananza, by saying this. I'm sorry, but you guys with "top of the line drums" can keep that "advice" (ala "Get a Faster car, dude") for your girlfriends. It does not really help at all, plus may confuse and actually mislead a person who is asking for helpful advice.
okey, then... arghhhhhhhhh

ChaoticDrummr24, don't give up yet on trying to capture the sound. In general if you hear your drums "playing" right , then there must be a way to capture this sound. Well, it may be somewhat hard task, thou... In general what you hear while playing and then what's "going" into your mics is not the same 'thing' ... Then your mics also "capture" or "reject" what's "going" into mics in their 'own specific way' (another words 'mics' hear the sound the way they are designed/made). And then of course pre-rec processing and your actual recording device may and does affect the result. So keepping this in mind try to follow the "chain" and experiment/compare.
I'd start with trying different heads (G1(s) is a good idea to try from my experience, but I don't have much experience with other heads), then I'd say you sure need to experiment with mic placement, for example the distance between mic and head may actually affect allot how the mic "captures" sound. Play with overheads also.
I'd say it was a good advice on basically trying to get the best sound (recording) as possible without applying any eq/compression, but it does not mean, that you simply MUST get it 100% right without any processing.
So when you feel like you did the best on drums/heads/tuning and then on mic placement - then try to apply some pre-record eq on selected mics/channels and/or compression if you wish to try it. This all takes time really experimenting and finding the best set-up for your specific drum-kit/your room, your playing style/techniques and your taste of course. When recording drums, too many components must come together into some sort of "optimum combination". Also there's nothing wrong with having hard time to get it "right".

Your mics are fine to do the work. Some guys will tell you, that your mics are 'crappy' as well..heh heh. There always will be something else to blame out there

/respects

Amen, well said.

 

[ChaoticDrummr24]

Thanks alot guys, been playing around for almsot two days straight now lol!.. I finally got it all, just added some reverb effects and eq'd the toms, and WOW they sound amazingly good.. I'll post a link hopefully soon of it.. Right now my band and I are recording in my "studio"(u can call it a studio i have 2 mixers, 2 computers, amp upon amps, over 25 mic cables, tons of speakers, over 25 mics, drums, guitars, effects, eq's etc.... ) so i should be able to post that up soon too.. thanks alot guys, and Well shit i think i'md oing pretty damn good for being 18 and having all this equipment, sure its not the sweetest shit, but its alot more things than what most people have...

Oh yeah its amazingly funny my one snare that i loved to death has two broken lugs on it (thats what u get for letting other people play and try to tune your snare when your at work) and well It soudns like crap playing it, but i miessed with a bunch of eqing and OMy gawd does it sound amazingly good.. lol who would have thought u could make a flat sound have so much LIfe to it! hehe

 

[drpfeffer]

i have 2 mixers, 2 computers, amp upon amps, over 25 mic cables, tons of speakers, over 25 mics, drums, guitars, effects, eq's etc.... )

I think you should seriously consider selling some of your stuff, just for a couple of hundred bucks, and get a "real" soundcard for music production..

The quality of your recordings will be a lot better than with the audigy card, and you will have so many other possibilities for using your mixers, effect boxes and eq's in the mixing phase..

AND you will get the possibility of recording multiple tracks at the same time, a big advantage when recording drums, or jamming with friends..

look into something like a m-audio delta 1010LT, or even a delta44 card to 150 bucks will get you a lot of the way..