lpdeluxe
The Precision Bass Guy
SOMEBODY's got to do it!
C
chessrock
Banned
I think a lot of guys could fare quite a bit better if they could look a little beyond the traditional music thing.
If recording rock & roll or hip hop is your thing, and you love doing it and it pays the bills . . . then this obviously doesn't apply to you. But just remember that there's a lot more out there for an AE than just recording bands. If you can find a unique niche market and serve it, then you can be successful.
One of the guys who frequents this board does audio books, for example. A few more I know of are live sound guys by evening. And a few more, like myself, do sound design for video projects/comercials/indie films as well. Right now, I'm probably about 60% Rock & Roll bands to 40% other audio stuff. Last month, for example, I recorded an all-day seminar with about 5 different motivational speakers, and the CD is going to be part of a monthly audio series. All told, I got close to 40 hours worth of work out of it recording and mixing at full hourly rate.
A lot of this stuff isn't sexy or glamorous. Yes, I'd much rather be working with the rock&roll bands, but the "normal" (non-audio) jobs I've held up to this point have all been about ten times worse than the crappiest audio job I've ever taken on.
If recording rock & roll or hip hop is your thing, and you love doing it and it pays the bills . . . then this obviously doesn't apply to you. But just remember that there's a lot more out there for an AE than just recording bands. If you can find a unique niche market and serve it, then you can be successful.
One of the guys who frequents this board does audio books, for example. A few more I know of are live sound guys by evening. And a few more, like myself, do sound design for video projects/comercials/indie films as well. Right now, I'm probably about 60% Rock & Roll bands to 40% other audio stuff. Last month, for example, I recorded an all-day seminar with about 5 different motivational speakers, and the CD is going to be part of a monthly audio series. All told, I got close to 40 hours worth of work out of it recording and mixing at full hourly rate.
A lot of this stuff isn't sexy or glamorous. Yes, I'd much rather be working with the rock&roll bands, but the "normal" (non-audio) jobs I've held up to this point have all been about ten times worse than the crappiest audio job I've ever taken on.
cominginsecond
Decentralized Media Mogul
I've recorded two records for labels. One that's coming out on my favorite label in the world: K records.
R
randyfromde
New member
My home-recording served its original purpose to me as a way to work on my writing. Along the way, I'm learning how to make the mixes work together so they actually sound like something.
So for my <$1000 investment, I got countless hours of entertainment, written a bunch of songs, and even got a few fans out of it from having mp3 downloads on my website.
That's about as successful as I want to be (in recording).
So for my <$1000 investment, I got countless hours of entertainment, written a bunch of songs, and even got a few fans out of it from having mp3 downloads on my website.
That's about as successful as I want to be (in recording).
Warhead
Jai guru deva om
Hey, you stole MY story!H2oskiphil said:
I'm 99% what he said.
But when you say "successful" I say...successful is enjoying what you do and reaping the rewards you set out for. I can make about $200 a day or so with my humble place...financially I wouldn't call that "successful". But I have fun and when the mix is done...I'm generally very happy and so are folks who come here.
One of these days...day job gone...studio full time...who knows? I've got so many kids and reponsibilities it's hard to make the jump. I dont' suggest anyone get into studio work for the money for the most part. Again, that "success" definition...
War
Warhead
Jai guru deva om
chessrock said:
And Chess is just nailing it on the head. I didn't mention in my last post that I've discovered a nice niche to fill to keep steady work in the studio...hence the hope that in the not too distant future a steady gig that will enable me to build the place up into a full time thing. And for real money...so don't limit yourself to rock bands. Besides...most bands are broke and half of them break up before the album is on the freakin' street!
War
Ronan
New member
Producing and mixing records has been my day job for about 14 years and I have been in studios as an artist or producer for over 20 years. Its been a cool ride. I have done records for majors and indies and been able to work with some amazing artists in studios all over the world. I would not trade a second of it. I was lucky because I got in early enough. Its a really bad time to try and get into this professionally. Unfortunately the music recording industry is imploding. These days everybody is a producer or engineer and there is hardly any work. Guys with 20 years experience and beautiful consoles are competing with guys with 6 months experience and a digi 001. Also labels are slashing budgets by as much as 90% This is really bringing down the quality bar of recorded music.
There is a much larger pool of engineers fighting for an ever smaller pool of work with insanely low budgets. The two main things that are wiping out the recording “business” is the rise of home recording and big recording schools cranking out thousands of students every year for jobs that do not exist. New engineers want to work for free to get experience so they are taking the work from the mid level guys. I am pals with everyone from novice engineers to legends and almost every one I know if having the worst financial year of their career if they have stayed in music recording. It used to be that bands would find ways to fund a record and come up with $5000 or more to make an indie record, but now that same level of artist is recording them selves or going to a studio that charges $15/hour.
Its really sad that so many big recording schools are cranking out so many students with the impression that there are actually entry level jobs for them. Most of these places are just cranking out future Wal-Mart employees. And to make maters worse many of the students come out of these schools with the skills needed to be an intern or assistant at a big studio, but not the skills to make records, but since there are no jobs they set up shop and start making records. Many people graduate from these schools and really have no idea how to mic a drum set (but they do know the automation of half million dollar consoles). This is too bad because they never get a chance to be mentored by guys with a lot more experience. I have recently started a recording school in LA that does not have the bullshit premise that we train people for careers in recording, we just have veteran engineers trying to help new engineers make better recordings at home or in their small start up studios. Any body can learn to run pro tools but being able to record and mix is a whole different question. We teach people how to make records. http://www.homerecordingbootcamp.com
If you are really going to try and make a living in music recording be prepared to give up everything else in your life, this has always been true but its far more true today than ever. If there is anything else in your life that is more important to you than making records, you should keep enjoying your hobby. Recording is a really cool and fun hobby.
There is a much larger pool of engineers fighting for an ever smaller pool of work with insanely low budgets. The two main things that are wiping out the recording “business” is the rise of home recording and big recording schools cranking out thousands of students every year for jobs that do not exist. New engineers want to work for free to get experience so they are taking the work from the mid level guys. I am pals with everyone from novice engineers to legends and almost every one I know if having the worst financial year of their career if they have stayed in music recording. It used to be that bands would find ways to fund a record and come up with $5000 or more to make an indie record, but now that same level of artist is recording them selves or going to a studio that charges $15/hour.
Its really sad that so many big recording schools are cranking out so many students with the impression that there are actually entry level jobs for them. Most of these places are just cranking out future Wal-Mart employees. And to make maters worse many of the students come out of these schools with the skills needed to be an intern or assistant at a big studio, but not the skills to make records, but since there are no jobs they set up shop and start making records. Many people graduate from these schools and really have no idea how to mic a drum set (but they do know the automation of half million dollar consoles). This is too bad because they never get a chance to be mentored by guys with a lot more experience. I have recently started a recording school in LA that does not have the bullshit premise that we train people for careers in recording, we just have veteran engineers trying to help new engineers make better recordings at home or in their small start up studios. Any body can learn to run pro tools but being able to record and mix is a whole different question. We teach people how to make records. http://www.homerecordingbootcamp.com
If you are really going to try and make a living in music recording be prepared to give up everything else in your life, this has always been true but its far more true today than ever. If there is anything else in your life that is more important to you than making records, you should keep enjoying your hobby. Recording is a really cool and fun hobby.
junplugged
Taking the slow road
Wow, I had a feeling that was the reality, and you are actually educating in the field and giving the hard truth at the same time. Well, with that kind of info, I would guess you are educating a small group at a time?Ronan said:
It also used to be that, in the computer field, when the big expansion was going on, that you could have a job if you knew how to install operating systems, some software, and know how to replace bad cards and parts in a PC. That's it, you're a tech. I was there it was amazing, 4 pages of help wanted in IT in the NY Times help wanted. But now, if you want an IT job you have to, like you said, give up everything else in your life, eat, sleep, breathe computers and know all aspects of all systems and all major software from industry standard backup and database to networking, mac, pc, unix, and interconnecting all of it to LAN/Wan and routers, and then, you only start at $12/hour. BUT the SCHOOLS, are still advertising based on old information from 4 years ago about how you can make $40k right out. Not true, never even was, you started at 20k but now, you have to know it all and still start at $20k and then if you are the best, you get somewhere. They hire in India for the help desk, you gotta be super hands-on if you want to work here.... Even Bush's fund raising operations were out of India. Thanks for helping out, pres....
W
Wolfman140
New member
Hey guys,
Thanks for all everyone's insight on this thread...exactly what I was looking for.
Indeed, I too measure success by if I'm happy...Right now I'm in college with a Music Industry major. This major covers most aspects of music industry (contracts, publishing, etc) but right now I'm focusing on recording and/or sound/music for television or movies. I chose this major because I was pretty sure I wanted to be involved with music (industry) and I wasn't quite sure how yet. I'm just trying to get everyone's real-life story on their experiences as a producer/engineer so I can know what to expect. Again I'm not entirely sure if producing is the path for me, but you are all right...I do enjoy it and it doesn't ever feel like work to me. Something about taking someone's ideas and lyrics, and putting it all on cd to make sound great and let other's hear is just, something big. I am a singer/musician myself, but not a HUGE creative person so I like to help others develop their ideas and make them sound better. I also believe music conveys strong feelings and is very powerful...and I want to be a part of it...and I THINK recording it and shaping it is the best way to feel it.
Anyone else feel this way, or was in the same situation I am in? Any insight or experience related to it would be greatly appreciated, as I appreciate everyone who already posted. Right now I may not be a recording wizard know-it-all...yet...But I DO know what sends shivers up my spine when I hear something powerful. I only hope I can develop myself to be able to make a career of this that can support a family financially someday as well without having to worry about the 20 cent increase in the price of steak or something.
Any encouraging thoughts? Thanks everyone!
-Kevin
Thanks for all everyone's insight on this thread...exactly what I was looking for.
Indeed, I too measure success by if I'm happy...Right now I'm in college with a Music Industry major. This major covers most aspects of music industry (contracts, publishing, etc) but right now I'm focusing on recording and/or sound/music for television or movies. I chose this major because I was pretty sure I wanted to be involved with music (industry) and I wasn't quite sure how yet. I'm just trying to get everyone's real-life story on their experiences as a producer/engineer so I can know what to expect. Again I'm not entirely sure if producing is the path for me, but you are all right...I do enjoy it and it doesn't ever feel like work to me. Something about taking someone's ideas and lyrics, and putting it all on cd to make sound great and let other's hear is just, something big. I am a singer/musician myself, but not a HUGE creative person so I like to help others develop their ideas and make them sound better. I also believe music conveys strong feelings and is very powerful...and I want to be a part of it...and I THINK recording it and shaping it is the best way to feel it.
Anyone else feel this way, or was in the same situation I am in? Any insight or experience related to it would be greatly appreciated, as I appreciate everyone who already posted. Right now I may not be a recording wizard know-it-all...yet...But I DO know what sends shivers up my spine when I hear something powerful. I only hope I can develop myself to be able to make a career of this that can support a family financially someday as well without having to worry about the 20 cent increase in the price of steak or something.
Any encouraging thoughts? Thanks everyone!-Kevin
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Wolfman140
New member
PS...Yes everyone...there IS disgusting amounts of money to be made in this industry...Unfortunately usually its not made by the engineers. Usually its the lawyers, A&R men, publishers, and all the other legal/contractual peeps...Unless of course you are Method Man or whoever and produce tracks for hip hop artists for thousands of dollars per track.
Ronan
New member
Yeah we keep the classes really small. Anywhere from 3-8 students. The whole idea behind the school is not about being a racket to con kids into thinking we can turn them into pro engineers, but we can take people that love recording and teach them how to do it better.junplugged said:
Ronan
New member
Wolfman140 said:Hey guys,
Right now I may not be a recording wizard know-it-all...yet...But I DO know what sends shivers up my spine when I hear something powerful. I only hope I can develop myself to be able to make a career of this that can support a family financially someday as well without having to worry about the 20 cent increase in the price of steak or something.
If your really want to be able to do recording proffesionally and comfortably raise a family on the income, you should not really be looking at recording albums or music for musics sake. You should be looking at options such as working on TJ jingles or sound mixer for a TV station or something like that. Those can be fun jobs for some people. I am not saying that it would be impossible for some one just starting out to have a good career in music recording, but I am also not saying that it would be impossible for some one starting out to have a good career in pro baseball. It happens but its the exception. Its my prediction that in about 5 years the average adjusted gross income for a professional music engineer will be less than $10,000.
I would never tell anyone not to get into recording because its been the highlight of my life and I gladly took years of poverty to get it off the ground (in a time when there were more opportunities than their are now), but it is not really a sane choice if you are looking for any kind of financial stability.
cominginsecond
Decentralized Media Mogul
I just took out a loan for 5 grand to remodel my shed into a recording space. My only financial recording goal is to pay that loan off with recording income in the next 4 years.
I think I can do it.
I think I can do it.
F
Frank Story
New member
Success is relative unless money is your only yardstick. Does creating something of beauty that gives you pleasure, peace of mind and relaxation count? That's what I get from home recording and if I had to pay for a like value of therapy I'd be broke now. I had a successful music career in the seventies and wound up hating it. Be careful what you wish for.