How should I EQ my pseudo "NS10" amp?

RecordingMaster

RecordingMaster

A Sarcastic Statement
Hi there,
As a secondary pair of reference monitors that have a stronger midrange and attenuated lows,which sort of are supposed to play the same role as NS10's would, I am currently using a pair of the original silver Japan-made Realistic Minimus 7 bookshelf speakers. I am powering them with a Marantz Model 2270 amp.

I know I can't turn these into NS10's, but I am wondering what you might suggest I set the eq dials at on the Marantz - especially for those of you who have used NS10's before (or my speakers and/or amp). At first, I used to set the dials flat, but I found that kept a little too much bass in them than I wanted - as in, kicks and bass guitars were easily audible on these (maybe that's because I am acheiving a good low end mix haha), but it's almost like I didn't have to try very hard. And they sounded too muddy when flat, even on pro mixes so that didn't really help me for referencing. So now I have the bass one notch down and the mid and high one notch up to sort of make them honkier. Seems to work I guess but I'm wondering what the best setting would be in order to get the most use out of them. As in, what makes the speaskers sound awful in general (like NS10's), but where pro mixes still sound good on them? If I can dial that in properly, then I will know that I am done my eq'ing until it sounds in the same ballpark as a pro mix on these.

Any suggestions for those that have either a) used my setup or similar, b) used NS10's or C) all of the above?

Thanks and happy holidays!
 
you don't eq them.
\

the whole point, is that they sound a certain way, you memorize how pro material sounds like thru them, and eq your mix to match the sound of that output.

you are missing the whole point, by trying to eq them.
 
GONZO-X said:
you don't eq them.
\

the whole point, is that they sound a certain way, you memorize how pro material sounds like thru them, and eq your mix to match the sound of that output.

you are missing the whole point, by trying to eq them.
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^^^^
This
 
The point of running your mix through bass (or whatever) deficient speakers is to hear how your mix sounds on deficient speakers.

Speaking of which, I have a pair of Minimus 7 speakers and a reference mic. I should do some tests to see just how the bass rolls off.
 
Did anybody read the OP? Maybe bsg...

He wants the speakers he has to sound like NS10s. Assuming that they don't to begin with, how does leaving the EQ flat help? We can argue the wisdom of the request, I suppose.

RM - Have you looked for frequency response curves for the two sets of speakers? I'd imagine it would be a matter of subtracting one curve from the other and then setting your EQ to match that difference curve. Or I'd be willing to bet that there's an impulse response or two out there for the NS10s. You'd have to try to undo the idiosyncrasies of your speakers first, then run through the NS10 impulse. Course it seems you'll be setting yourself up for some phase smearing. Not sure how much that matters.

Does this help at all?
hs50m-vs-ns10.webp
 
Here's my measurement of a Realistic Minimus 7 and a JBL 2600 for comparison. It was done indoors and you can see the similar room effects on the two plots. Nothing changed between the two measurements except lowering the stand slightly to accommodate the JBL's greater height. Mic distance was 1 meter, gain was not altered.

Maybe I'll get a chance to redo this outside for a more accurate result.

 
ashcat_lt said:
Did anybody read the OP? Maybe bsg...
Click to expand...
I think the point everyone's trying to make is that he shouldn't try to make them sound like NS-10s.
NS 10s are crap speakers that got popular as studio guys wanted some crap speakers to hear what their mixes would sound like on crappy stuff that people often used in their homes.

ANY crap speaker will do fine for that and even with NS-10s it's a matter of needing to learn how mixes translate to them for them to be of any use.
 
Thanks for the replies fellas!

Yeah, Ashcat, you caught my drift! ;) And yeah, an NS10 Impulse Response would be amazing to try on some super flat speakers! I'm surprised there isn't some sort of plugin out there for that, since a lot of people just dump wads of cash into anything to do with NS10's or things made to replicate them!

Miro, I won't be doing the tissue thing, although I know that was sarcasm. The speakers don't have harsh tweeters like NS10's apparently had. If anything it's the opposite.

Thanks for the measurements Boulder, very cool!

In my OP I mention how leaving them flat (maybe it's the marantz) doesn't prove to be a useful reference for me, because even pro mixes just sound odd through them. As in, when I A/B my mix against a pro mix, there are very few differences I can make out because they are so muddy. I have other speakers I reference on which have proved useful for other things, like my 2" mono clock radio speaker and another I have is to go through some cheapo Logitech PC speakers with the attached "subwoofer", oh and headphones of course. THOSE help me for certain things but I wanted my Minimus 7's to take on the role of NS10's (or something similar), but they are just too muddy with the amp flat to be of any discernible reference.

So maybe I should just stick with my instinct and current setup and just take the lows down a notch and boost the mid and hi up a notch to make them slightly less muddy and get a little more midrange. Which by the way, these tiny things have a ton of low end for how small the woofer is. Wide frequency response for such a little speaker!
 
RecordingMaster said:
Thanks for the replies fellas!

Yeah, Ashcat, you caught my drift! ;) And yeah, an NS10 Impulse Response would be amazing to try on some super flat speakers! I'm surprised there isn't some sort of plugin out there for that, since a lot of people just dump wads of cash into anything to do with NS10's or things made to replicate them!

Miro, I won't be doing the tissue thing, although I know that was sarcasm. The speakers don't have harsh tweeters like NS10's apparently had. If anything it's the opposite.

Thanks for the measurements Boulder, very cool!

In my OP I mention how leaving them flat (maybe it's the marantz) doesn't prove to be a useful reference for me, because even pro mixes just sound odd through them. As in, when I A/B my mix against a pro mix, there are very few differences I can make out because they are so muddy. I have other speakers I reference on which have proved useful for other things, like my 2" mono clock radio speaker and another I have is to go through some cheapo Logitech PC speakers with the attached "subwoofer", oh and headphones of course. THOSE help me for certain things but I wanted my Minimus 7's to take on the role of NS10's (or something similar), but they are just too muddy with the amp flat to be of any discernible reference.

So maybe I should just stick with my instinct and current setup and just take the lows down a notch and boost the mid and hi up a notch to make them slightly less muddy and get a little more midrange. Which by the way, these tiny things have a ton of low end for how small the woofer is. Wide frequency response for such a little speaker!
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Man, just try not to get caught up in making things sound like other things. Eq'ing/changing eq on any system will just stop your ability to learn what ant given one is telling you.

Learn what you are hearing on any given system and never change that. Otherwise you will be on an endless spiral of trying to figure out what you are hearing. The eq in my work van has not been changed in 2 years. There is a reason for that. Now I am confident in what it tells me.
 
jimmys69 said:
Man, just try not to get caught up in making things sound like other things. Eq'ing/changing eq on any system will just stop your ability to learn what ant given one is telling you.

Learn what you are hearing on any given system and never change that. Otherwise you will be on an endless spiral of trying to figure out what you are hearing. The eq in my work van has not been changed in 2 years. There is a reason for that. Now I am confident in what it tells me.
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Yes I absolutely agree and understand that. I do the same in my car (and my wife's). I never change the eq on anything I listen to because I know how it all sounds. I was trying to do exactly that on my Marantz too. Just set and forget. I'm not trying to make them sound exactly like NS10's, that would be foolish and never-ending. But I was trying to get in the ballpark since these things flat on the Marantz sound so damn muddy. And trust me, I have learned what other things sound like on them: muddy, even pro stuff. Flat, they sort of reveal nothing. So I guess, without getting all technical and running them through some sort of stereo outboard eq, I should maybe go with my instinct afterall and just do what i described in my last post. hahaha ! :O
 
RecordingMaster said:
Yes I absolutely agree and understand that. I do the same in my car (and my wife's). I never change the eq on anything I listen to because I know how it all sounds. I was trying to do exactly that on my Marantz too. Just set and forget. I'm not trying to make them sound exactly like NS10's, that would be foolish and never-ending. But I was trying to get in the ballpark since these things flat on the Marantz sound so damn muddy. And trust me, I have learned what other things sound like on them: muddy, even pro stuff. Flat, they sort of reveal nothing. So I guess, without getting all technical and running them through some sort of stereo outboard eq, I should maybe go with my instinct afterall and just do what i described in my last post. hahaha ! :O
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Yep. If flat, it does tell you something. It will tell you when something 'is' actually revealed. :)

Don't get me wrong, my van has a sub and it is boosted to +3, whatever the hell that means. Bass up +2, mids flat, and highs up +3. Again whatever that means.

But, that is how everything I listen to sounds good in the van. Never touch it for listening to your mixes. When you do, shit goes crazy and you second guess your decisions.

Oh, and don't listen in your 'van' when drunk. Never works out well....lol
 
jimmys69 said:
Yep. If flat, it does tell you something. It will tell you when something 'is' actually revealed. :)

Don't get me wrong, my van has a sub and it is boosted to +3, whatever the hell that means. Bass up +2, mids flat, and highs up +3. Again whatever that means.

But, that is how everything I listen to sounds good in the van. Never touch it for listening to your mixes. When you do, shit goes crazy and you second guess your decisions.

Oh, and don't listen in your 'van' when drunk. Never works out well....lol
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Yep, no, I know. I agree. But no the 7's reveal nothing at the flat setting on my amp, ever. haha. But anywho, I'd agree, any type of "referencing" while inebriated proves to be completely useless. Which is why I never mix while intoxicated. The times I've tried, I had to come back and undo everything I had done. hahaha. Oh and for the record, if you ARE listening in your "van" while drunk, hopefully you're in the passenger seat and/or the car isn't running! :O
 
RecordingMaster said:
Yep, no, I know. I agree. But no the 7's reveal nothing at the flat setting on my amp, ever. haha. But anywho, I'd agree, any type of "referencing" while inebriated proves to be completely useless. Which is why I never mix while intoxicated. The times I've tried, I had to come back and undo everything I had done. hahaha. Oh and for the record, if you ARE listening in your "van" while drunk, hopefully you're in the passenger seat and/or the car isn't running! :O
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Only in the driveway man. Only in the driveway.

Actually my wife came out to stop me once because she thought I was going somewhere. It was cold so I started the van. My ears were really fried after that... :facepalm:
 
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