How many notes can you lift before it becomes plagiarism?

  • Thread starter Thread starter jokerone
  • Start date Start date
ResidentExpert said:
I dont care about your opinion either. You might know the law, but you dont know why the law is stupid. Do you think Im the first writer to complain about this law?

"You do have protection against changes made to it. The right to prepare derivative works is one of the secured rights of copyright."

No I dont, If I write "yesterday" and somebody releases the same melody, same arrangement, same chord progression, but changes it to
Tuna Fish, Without Mayo it's a piss ass dish, they CAN, So I HAVE NO proection against it, even though I wrote it, and registered it with the copyright office
Click to expand...

Ok, bye bye now...
 
ResidentExpert said:
This is the crux of most arguments here. WHO decides WHO knows anything. I know for a fact that alot of things said about songwriting here are complete nonsense, but Im never "right"
Click to expand...
Well, when it comes to me and law, the State Bar of California, the judges I appear before, the clients who hire me, and my peers who have evaluated me for Martindale. When it comes to Greg and music, there are many metrics, not the least of which is he is a professional musician, i.e. people pay money to hear his music. He also is a composer who has put out CDs which, again, people buy for actual money. Now, "art" may be subjective and you may or may not like his music (I like his music a lot). However, even if you don't care for his music, there is no denying his musicianship. That's three metrics, all objective.

Who decides who knows anything? People who know something. So far, you've demonstrated that you know nothing. Claiming you "know something as a fact" is really laughable, Resident Expert, as you've yet to state a single fact that is correct.
 
ResidentExpert said:
I dont care about your opinion either. You might know the law, but you dont know why the law is stupid. Do you think Im the first writer to complain about this law?
Click to expand...
I don't think you're a writer. I think you're just another internet troll.

"You do have protection against changes made to it. The right to prepare derivative works is one of the secured rights of copyright."

No I dont, If I write "yesterday" and somebody releases the same melody, same arrangement, same chord progression, but changes it to
Tuna Fish, Without Mayo it's a piss ass dish, they CAN, So I HAVE NO proection against it, even though I wrote it, and registered it with the copyright office
Click to expand...
And, like everything else you've written, that is completely wrong. I commend you on your consistency. To be so willfully ignorant takes determination.
 
Its funny. No matter what new account Barry makes, he's still always wrong.
 
ResidentExpert said:
You gotta be right all the time, so not surprised
Click to expand...


No, you have gone out of your way to give false information. And you have been banned now what 3/5 times?

Get a life dood.

This is not productive for any member here.
 
PDP said:
Cant find a definitive answer off hand. I was taught it was 7 consecutive melody notes, but you can even get away with that if the beat and tempo are very different.

George Harrison was sued for "My Sweet

Huey Lewis was sued for "I wanna new Drug" by Ray Parker Jr for "Ghostbusters" I believe the bass lines are the same for 7 notes, but Ray Parker lost because the bass line wasn't considered part of the songs melody.

.
Click to expand...

I think this is where I was going. So If I write a rap song about the Addams family with my own lyrics, melody, etc. But during the bridge of the song, at the very end I use the Addams family theme "Dun-ta da dunt- teet teet." only once, as a homage, I should be safe?
 
PTravel said:
A word about parody: Parody is a fair use doctrine defense to copyright infringement, meaning if you are sued for copyright infringement and your work is found to be parody you will not be liable. However, parody is a relatively complicated and non-intuitive doctrine that has some specific requirements. Chief among these is the requirement that the work alleged to be infringed be the "target" of the parody. Courts also apply something called the "conjure up" test, meaning that you are allowed to take no more of the original than is necessary to conjure up the original. Finally, there is a judicial gloss applied to parody cases that says, essentially, if your parody is "immoral" (and there is no legal definition for this -- parody is an equitable doctrine within the discretion of the judge), you will not be able to avail yourself of the parody fair use defense. Two examples of the immorality judicial gloss: Saturday Night Live parodied the "I Love NY" campaign with a song called "I Love Sodom." In the law suit that followed, SNL's song was held legitimate parody and, therefore, fair use. However, at roughly the same time, radio DJ Rick Dees in Southern California did a parody of the jazz standard "When Sunny Gets Blue" called "When Sunny Sniffs Glue." Dees was held to infringe the original -- no parody defense available. The only significant difference between the facts of these two cases was the subject matter -- SNL's song was about the biblical city, whereas Dees' song was about glue sniffing. To show just how fickle courts can be with respect to application of parody doctrine when morality is involved, I recommend doing a Google search Walt Disney v. The Air Pirates, which is the case that originated the "conjure up" test.
Click to expand...

ok thanks!

I'm betting based on what you said that my song would be a homage more than a parody, but would not be intended to be ripping the original off.

I think the star trekin' song I referenced earlier is a perfect example. Nowhere (at least that I remember) is the theme to the show included in the song, but the references everybody gets because they know the show. If that couldn't be considered lawsuit material, then I should be safe.

thanks
 
jokerone said:
I think this is where I was going. So If I write a rap song about the Addams family with my own lyrics, melody, etc. But during the bridge of the song, at the very end I use the Addams family theme "Dun-ta da dunt- teet teet." only once, as a homage, I should be safe?
Click to expand...

Not really sure, after reading PT travel's posts I realize I'm not really qualified to comment. Its a bit more complicated than I remember so, Lets see what he says.
 
jokerone said:
I think this is where I was going. So If I write a rap song about the Addams family with my own lyrics, melody, etc. But during the bridge of the song, at the very end I use the Addams family theme "Dun-ta da dunt- teet teet." only once, as a homage, I should be safe?
Click to expand...
I'd have to hear the song and see the lyrics. These things are intensely fact-specific. However, just from your description, I'd have to say . . . maybe, maybe not. :)
 
PTravel said:
I'd have to hear the song and see the lyrics. These things are intensely fact-specific. However, just from your description, I'd have to say . . . maybe, maybe not. :)
Click to expand...

Fair enough. If you check the Wild Wild West reference above its pretty close. Again, both shows were CBS. If this was a song I was writing, it would be close. Actually I was looking for another clip with Alan Hale, Jim Bacus, and somebody else from Gilligan's Island all in the same show. (may have been this WW West episode?) , but at the end of the show that was a completely serious drama, somebody said something like "Hey, haven't I seen you three someplace before?" and they played that snippet of the Gilligan Theme. If it wasn't a CBS show, and they didn't have to pay royaltes for that, then I'm probably safe... maybe. :):):)
 
jokerone said:
Fair enough. If you check the Wild Wild West reference above its pretty close. Again, both shows were CBS. If this was a song I was writing, it would be close. Actually I was looking for another clip with Alan Hale, Jim Bacus, and somebody else from Gilligan's Island all in the same show. (may have been this WW West episode?) , but at the end of the show that was a completely serious drama, somebody said something like "Hey, haven't I seen you three someplace before?" and they played that snippet of the Gilligan Theme. If it wasn't a CBS show, and they didn't have to pay royaltes for that, then I'm probably safe... maybe. :):):)
Click to expand...
What you described isn't parody and would have required a license.
 
Wow. Barry lasted less than 24 hrs and never once mentioned Bruce Springsteen.

He's slipping. Funny how obvious it was that it was him. Too funny :laughings:
 
Can we copyright Pachabel's Cannon in D and get people to stop putting it in so many songs? Tee Hee
 
There is no magic number of notes. The rule is simple. If the average person thinks they are hearing another song, then you have infringed. The defense is often that they did not borrow more than 7 notes? Oops...you were borrowing? Guilty. I worked with a musicologist for years in New York City in the field of advertising. She was called to testify in many well-known cases involving famus artists including George Harrison's famous case involving "My Sweet Love" So those are the facts. If the average person thinks they hear another song instead of yours, you have infringed. Here's what are NOT defenses: You have no money, you didn't make any money, you gave credit, you only used 7 notes, other people do it all the time, you didn't mean to (George Harrison). Here's what cannot be copyrighted: chord changes, titles, and strings of words that are common to the language. ("I love you so much" cannot be copyrighted.) The infringement occurs on a string of notes in a lead line familiar to the average person as another protected song. Also, under the new laws you do NOT have to register the song lead line. Once written it is protected. (registering provides you with a start date for punitive damages as well as protectin from being sued yourself by someone who wrote theirs at a later date.) Sending yourseof a letter doesn't do anything, and to produce a CD recording of a cover you need to acquire the mechanical licensing rights through Harry Fox based on the number of CD's produced. You cannot use the exact same arrangement either. The intro and outro and the AABD verse, chorus, bridge order must be changed. Good Luck,
Rod Norman
Engineer
jokerone said:
So lets say you are writing a homage / parity song about Star Wars, or Star Trek, or Shaft, Towering Inferno, Gilligan's Island, etc.

How many notes in a row can you lift before you have legal problems?

5?
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top