How many guitarists know dots, Who's frustrated with those that don't?

  • Thread starter Thread starter VTgreen81
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Been reading since the age 14! Came in handy doin' session work in the late 70's and early 80's!
 
I have classical training in bass clef for my brass work in school.

First position is really the only area on the neck that can accomodate all twelve keys (well, ok, and 13th position). The best approach is to learn how to sight-read in first position and develop the proficiency necessary to where you can read the whole phrase at a glance as opposed to the individual notes. At that point you can graft the sight-reading skill to other areas of the neck. This of course assumes that the sheet music is charted for guitar correctly to begin with, which is rarely the case (how the hell am I supposed to know this phrase is played in fifth position if you don't notate that in the score?).

I think the ideal should be that a guitar player should know everything else contained in sheet music other than the individual notes: rhythm, tempo descriptions, dynamics, endings and codas, time signatures, etc. with the rest gleamed from tab.
 
Cyrokk said:
I think the ideal should be that a guitar player should know everything else contained in sheet music other than the individual notes: rhythm, tempo descriptions, dynamics, endings and codas, time signatures, etc. with the rest gleamed from tab.
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Yep. That combination is the only way to accurately transcribe guitar music.

A
www.aaroncheney.com
 
Ed Dixon said:
It boils down to what you want to do with music. For most part time local groups and players it may have little impact. However for anyone considering music as a real career, it's another story.

A few weeks ago I had the opportunity to speak with Ed Shaughnessy, who was the drummer on the tonight show for many years. He commented that 3 things led to his success in the music business.

1. He played all styles well
2. He was easy to get along with
3. He read music

That's what got him started.

Ed
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Drummers read music? What does their score look like?
 
crazydoc said:
Drummers read music? What does their score look like?
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God do I want to make jokes. On the off chance you are serious, it kinda looks like regular staff, but there is a line for each drum and the part gets read across like melodic stuff. I gotta say, it must be a serious bitch to read.
 
Aaron Cheney said:
Yep. That combination is the only way to accurately transcribe guitar music.
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Classical guitar notation is standard notation with the added help of position markers (in Roman numerals). It works quite well. I was never that great at it, but that's the ideal to aspire to.
 
True, but there are many instances where music written for classical guitar erroneously omit the Roman numeral positions. It's a standard that hasn't been consistently applied, and is completely absent in 90% or more of any non-classical score. The proliferation for tablature addressed this need, and tablature wins out as a more consistent language. Composers and arrangers are at least partially to blame for the backlash against sight-reading in the classic sense of the term.
 
When I started playing guitar, I didn't wanna learn how to read music.

I wanted to play "We're Not Gonna Take It"!!!

I took lessons at about 11 for a while from a guy that totally humiliated me one day at a lesson. I was using the Mel Bay book, but I didn't "know" any of the melodies. So when I left the lesson, I couldn't remember what the tunes were supposed to sound like. I would try to figure them out, but grew frustrated and reverted back to basic chords and stuff I knew.

One day, the guy put a $20 bill on the music stand, and said he would give it to me if I could play the line. It was the previous lesson.

When I couldn't do it, he began berating me for not studying. Which really wasn't true. I played my guitar every day, and had the cool high-school aged guy next door showing me barre chords and stuff. But I didn't wanna learn "Anna Laurel" or whatever bullshit 1930's hit Mel Bay had in mind for me to learn. I wanted to rock out!!!

That really turned me off lessons. Period. I've learned a bunch from watching and listening to great music, and can utilize TAB much better than I ever could notation. I wish I could sight read. Maybe one of these days I'll swing by the local CC and take some theory and piano classes. I've always wanted to play keys.
 
Remember, some of the greatest guitar players who ever lived not only couldn't read music, they couldn't see at all.
 
mshilarious said:
Classical guitar notation is standard notation with the added help of position markers (in Roman numerals). It works quite well. I was never that great at it, but that's the ideal to aspire to.
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Sometimes there are finger numbers for chord fingerings, string changes, etc.
It helps a lot. I agree that the above is something to aspire to, as well, but I'm old! I'm kinda split between the schools of tab rocks! and tab is for slackers!

I think tab was a big advance in guitar notation, because you don't have to be thinking about positions while you work out a piece. I've been doing it long enough that I can read it almost like standard notation, kind of hearing it before I play. Once I know the key I don't even really see the numbers anymore, I just play it. Since I never learned to read it was a godsend. I've done my homework, though, and know my chords and scales and some pretty decent theory basics. The only thing I regret about not being able to read is, well, not being able to read! I'd love to pick up another instrument and only have to worry about technically learning it, not figuring out the music, too.

Reading and all that other stuff is only half the game, tho.

To me, without listening to a performance of a piece it's all just some crap on paper. We got excited by hearing the stuff, after all, not reading it. Who hasn't spent hours trying to get that BB King vibrato, or make it sound raw like Communication Breakdown. You can't "accurately transcribe" that with any amount of education or curlicues or codas or fetundas. As important as the traditions of reading and studying are, they are matched by the tradition of how it's actually supposed to sound. And you can't get that on paper.

If you gave an orchestra Beethoven's fifth, and they had never heard it, and they practiced it, and played it for him, I wonder if he would like it. I know, things progress and change, as do interpretations, but I hope you see my point.

Thankfully we can all buy books and CDs and sit in our closets and wank with the masters to our heart's content :D . When I was learning there just were no teachers. I wore out a tape deck learning Candyman by Gary Davis. And I play it a bit different now, but I played it over and over til I got as close as possible to how it sounded, how it pulled, how it breathed, which took a lot longer than it did to learn the notes, that's for sure.

Flamenco was almost entirely handed down from person to person, by the master playing over and over and making the student repeat until he could play it. Nothing written down ever. The same with blues. I've never been able to completely learn some of those pieces w/out some kind of performance notes. Slide here, move there, if you move your pinkie like this it will be easier. Sometimes for music an instructor is not only helpful, but indispensible, be it a person or a recording or a video. Cause you just gotta hear it!

Thankfully flamenco and country blues regained popularity and some of the masters were recorded before we lost those links to the old traditions, some of the most vibrant and vital guitar music ever played.

And thankfully the idea of writing music down happened before the big classical boys came along so we didn't lose them. A world with no Beethoven would be lesser IMHO.

I think I may be able to possibly shut up now.
 
I'm a bassplayer and I did an audition for a musical 2 weeks ago (Fame, local theater group). All musicians received sheet music in advance.
Only one bassplayer showed up (me) and only one guitarplayer.
I can't sight read but I read well enough to be able to practise for the audition. I got the gig.
The guitar player who couldn't read and therefore wasn't well enough prepared didn't get the gig.
I realize I can't read good enough for session work but I'll get there some day. I had to dig deep for the audition and my reading improved a lot in a matter of days. It's a GREAT skill to have.
 
TexRoadkill said:
crazydoc said:
Drummers read music? What does their score look like?
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The same as other scores but with more vomit and urine stains.
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Well, this was why I asked:

Q - What's the best way to confuse a drummer?

A - Put a sheet of music in front of him.
 
It doesn't bother me so much if they know nothing of theory, but it really pisses me off when they don't wan't to take the time to learn something that will vastly help improve the group as a whole.
 
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