how do you usually write.

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do you people usually write the lyrics around your guitar riffs or vise versa. i seem to come up with my best lyrics just out of nowhere without a riff in mind or anything, but then when i try to put a riff to the song it never works out right. another thing, any suggestions for getting over writers block? every time i start to write a song lately i just end up getting a line or two then i draw a blank.
 
oooer, there are probably many posts like this on the songwriting forum. you should check out the archives. writers block is terrible, i know. and the 2-line song is all too familiar =) i think you need to take the two lines and draw from them as much as you can, and not wait for something to come along and add to them. try free association writing. most of all: don't let it get you down. I get horridly depressed over this.

very rarely do i come up with just words, in a poetic sense. if words do pop into my head, they're attached to a melody. so i try my damned best to remember it and when i get to a guitar or piano, i work it out.

i recommend this: if you've got lyrics and no guitar riff, don't worry, work out a melody for the line, the best chord prog around that melody, and draw your guitar riff from the vocal melody. just trying to come up with something to go over a lyric is jumping a few steps i think.

right... i'm off =)
 
thanks. the advise about getting a vocal melody and writing a guitar riff around that is just what i need. i've got tons of song books on the verge of being thrown away because i get so discouraged when i cant write a riff for them.
 
writers block is simply when you stop writing. most people, including me at one point, get it when you think the lyrics you write are shit or wont work. best thing to do is just get everything on paper, no matter how lame it is. it might spawn totally fresh ideas another time...

i tend to find it easier to just improvise a chorus around a title, get the chorus down, then the verses seem just to fall into place around it. now - we all know improvised lyrics can be shit, but it will give you an idea that you can re-write.
writing riffs around songs to me tends to give me stuff that sounds too complex, but definitely works for others i know.

good thing about this whole game of music and songwriting is - there aren't any rules. and even if their was, we'd break them anyway.

good luck

cheers
 
i need another opinion. how many of you think its just boring to have one riff through the entire song, i've written a few where it just works out that the verses and choruses have the same riff completely through and it doesnt sound right to go into a different riff,. maybe i just have trouble doing a smooth transition between riffs.
 
I don't think that's a problem at all. some songs don't have any riffs!
suppose it might work differently depending what style you're writing in though. remember that the song isn't about the riff. a song is words sung to a melody. whatever you put around it, however you decide to harmonise it, all of that is just a matter of taste. imho. =)
 
I usually write with a pencil... sometimes I like to be dangerous and use a pen, but then if I make any mistakes I am SCREWED!
 
To add to what you just said,

I usually write from left to right.

It just seems to work better that way.
 
1. Premise of the song (what do I want to say) or hook/title w/ premise.
2. Outline the song & determine which song form would work best and what parts of the story I want to reveal where for best impact.
3. Brainstorm images related to the premise of the song
4. Write main idea of song (chorus or refrain depending on song form). The melody of the chorus is usually formed at this point. I rarely just write lyrics alone (although I have)
5. Write verse 1 with special forethought on what the lead in line to the chorus or refrain will be for a smooth transition. Again, the melody will be created here as well.
6. Write additional verses & bridge if necessary making sure they all support the premise of the song and flow easily into the chorus/refrain.
7. Put it down for a few days
8. Rewrite
9. Repeat step 7 & 8 as necessary

That’s a rough guideline to how put together a song. There’s a lot more intricacies in there and I don’t ALWAYS follow ALL the steps in the same order. I do sometimes get a groove or lick in my head that’s cool and it will suggest a lyric. Lyrics often suggest a melody.
 
What i've been doing lately is to just take a piece of paper, and jot down any ideas or lines come up with during the day...then when i fill up the page i'll kind of piece things together into something that makes sense...

not everything works, but i've been surprised by the results of just piecing together your thoughts from the day.

It's also useful for self psycho-analysis...which is what most of my lyrics have always been anyway...i'm on the smashing pumpkins/tool/NIN vibe there...
 
everyone is different. i find if i try to follow someone elses formula.. or try to follow a formula i devised that isn't "natural" then i'll get the block.

but i am a songwriter in a constant state of writers block. i won't write anything for days and then one night i'll just pop out a whole song and not know where it came from :mad: but that's my style and i enjoy it that way.. whereas other people i know can draw little maps and come out with a song every time. just try stuff and do what you feel is right. do what gets you the results you like.

i told a friend of mine once that i wasn't a songwriter because i can't write but one song a month and all he said was "even if you write one song a year, so long as you do it your way you are a songwriter".. changed my whole outlook on it.

---don't you hate the hippie attitude of "just be yourself" :rolleyes:
 
I keep a notebook of interesting concepts and possible lines.

Later, when I have written music, I will either write fresh lyrics, or go back to the notebook and see what gems I have lying around.
 
I think there is much to be said about lyrics coming out of nowhere. I'm not sure what it is, but it's my beleif that the best songs are written through stream of conciousness. When you're not totally aware of your feelings, thoughts, or emotions..but they surface somehow at that moment you are writing. The shitty side to this is what if you have a killer riff already made? Most of the time, it won't work to well becuase it wasn't written in that 'moment'. It is my belief that you can't plan the conception of a really good song. I was reading and interview with Brian Eno and he had a great quote on how the conception of a song, to him, is a magical, spontaneous, and random affair. The bottom line is that the more concious you are of what you are trying to write, the more difficult it usually is.
 
michael stipe calls those instant songs "vomit songs". they just come out...no way to stop them. :)

kindofblue, songwriting isn't about riff writing... don't go about things backwards.
 
As potential song titles/story song themes/hook lines occur to me from God-knows-where, I maintain them in a longstanding list that I began to create years ago. 90% of the time, the music comes first -- it just seems easier and more natural for me. Every lyric-first song I've done was as a collaboration with another lyricist -- and in those cases it worked out very well. Music always comes to me while just noodling around on my guitar. I never force it. The chorus music usually comes first, then the verses, then the bridge (if the song needs one). As the song arrangement forms, I find myself 'mouthing' nonsensical words to help fit the meter/syllable count to get the best, natural flow. For some reason, in doing so, the last word of the line seems to naturally take-shape so as to create a rhyme-scheme (if there is a tight scheme). From there, the music tends to suggest a theme to me, and I return to my list to see if there's anything on it that might work. If so, I go from there. If not, I wait until it comes to me. When it does, I write, rewrite and rewrite again. I usually post the lyric only to one of the songwriting forums I've participated in since about 1996. I almost never post the recorded song first. I like critics to focus on the lyric. Some believe it's hard to critique a lyric without the music, and although this can be true, if the lyric is well-written, it should almost flow so well that it sings itself off the page. Everybody writes in their own way. This approach works for me.
 
My best songs (IMO) usually come with the words and music together. I have several "orphan" riffs/complete tunes and words that I can never seem to match up with each other. To work around this, I've given lyrics to others to see what they can do with them or I keep them for spare parts for later songs.

For writers block, I did this once also, ,, pick a pleasant but not too distinct song and write completely new words for it, then put them away until you forget what the original song was, or if you cannot wait that long, give it to a friend and have them add music to it...never tell the friend the original song and try not to make it a real popular one that might be on your friend's mind too. Most songs will fit into many formats and if the words match the original songs's format, new music should be easier to write over top of the lyrics as they are already formated into "song speak".

FWIW..
 
I allways play the piano and search for good chord progressions. When I have found a serie I try to hum or sing along with it. Just using the first pathetic :) words that comes up. When I feel I have something that has an edge I try to decide if it should be a verse or chorus.
When that decision is taken (lets say I decided it ended up as a chorus) I try to make the verse. When the verse is done I make a prechorus and after that I will try to make a small hook and maybe even a bridge. Then an intro, often in the same key as the chorus (i most often do a keychange from the prechorus to the chorus)
And then comes countless days and weeks with changing the whole thing.
Finally I will write the lyrics.
 
I usually write lyrics and music seperately. Not always, but usually. Magically they usually fit together though. I've never had a problem with writer's block on lyrics, at least not for more than a few minutes or so. Granted, not everything was golden, but I just forget everything and let it flow.

Music is a different thing. My band has certain riffs and progressions that are unfinished after more than a year. We usually write very quickly, but not wrecklessly. If something doesnt feel right or starts sounding inauthentic, we stop and try a different direction. That being said, music almost always comes before lyrics. Sure, concept albums are great, but I find it confining to write music to a theme.

I write most of the music and about half of my band's lyrics.

www.melatoninband.net
 
just curious if any of you record the song while in the working progress to help diagnose any necessary changes, .. i experimented with recording the basic instrumental of a song and then playing it while writing lyrics, it seemed to help me keep everything contained to what would fit.
 
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