How do you structure recording?

N

neon glow

New member
Do you at first record the whole song on some basic instrument, and then start wraping it in more instruments, and changing it as you go along, or you just record it verse by verse, further and further, without a fundamental? (That is, when you're making your song alone, using multiple instruments, on multitrack software.) I would't be asking this question if not for a little misunderstanding we had with a friend of mine.
 
neon glow said:
Do you at first record the whole song on some basic instrument, and then start wraping it in more instruments, and changing it as you go along, or you just record it verse by verse, further and further, without a fundamental? (That is, when you're making your song alone, using multiple instruments, on multitrack software.) I would't be asking this question if not for a little misunderstanding we had with a friend of mine.
Click to expand...

I do all my recording alone, since I'm out in the middle of nowhere and there's no other musician's around. I believe when buidling anything, you have to build from the ground, or foundation, up. In music that means drums, bass guitar and rhythm guitars. I usually have the entire song mapped out in my head and create the drum tracks, then add the bass guitar, then rhythm guitars whether acoustic or electric. If there is a guitar hook to the song then I will add that next. Then I will work on structuring a solo if the song needs it. I will usually just loop the rhythm track in the solo section and play along over and over until I stumble onto something that I like and fits the song. Once all that is done I will add the lead vocals and then the background vocals. Most of the time I will stray from the 'map' in my head because as you play along with each different part you will have ideas that you want to try. Some work, some don't.

Now that works for ME. Some others who play all their own instruments may do it differently. And recording an entire band is another thing altogether. Maybe some that have done that will chime in here but for me, I would do all the rhythm tracks first, then go back and record solo's, then get a vocal track.

But I could be bass ackwards on that part. ;)
 
It all depends on the situation, but at the least you have to have a solid center to build on. Sometimes free-form meanderings resolve themselves nicely, but more often than not they don't. That's where editing comes in, and if you start relying on that then you might as well give up. Composition seems like it's a dying art these days. IMO, composition, arrangement and performance should guide the recording process.
 
But what if you have the structure and everything in mind. Would it make sense to record, let's say, guitar track, just to get the impression, and then alternate it and build on it, with the rest of instruments? Or should you start with introduction, then move on to a verse, then chorus?
 
This is what I do...

a) I record the rhythm guitar first...that gives me my beat/ tempo etc. I record acoustic guitar based songs

b) I might add the vocal next, if the song has a vocal

c) I start to record licks, second guitar parts like melody, fills etc

d) I start to think about percussion...this is limited to tapping away on a snare, shaking shakers or banging something like a tambourine. I don't do full on drums

e) Do some vocal harmonies if I can think of any

f) Start thinking about effects and colourings for any part of the sound...if I haven't already started to do that before

g) Listen to it over and over, ironing out problems, tweaking things, clearing excess sections of takes with nothing on them

h) Do a mixdown, open the mixed file in Wavelab and usually apply denoise, declick, stereo expander, and I might mess with the multi band eq to take away some boom

That's pretty much it...maybe not always in that order...but step 1 is always the same. So, to answer that question, yeah, I personally like to have the whole song played out...as opposed to doing the intro first and then building it like that. My acoustic base lays out the entire song. That's always step 1...so obviously there are a fair few takes and aborted takes etc. That's the hard part. Once I have that entire base, the fun parts begin I reckon. I did 'Julia' by John Lennon once, and getting the whole finger picked song in one take took me ages. Funnily enough, after that, I was pretty much done because it's just basically one guitar and a couple of vocals.
 
If you're a solo performer and/or doing all the instruments yourself, then do it whatever way feels the best for you.

I'm not much of a musician myself, but I have worked a lot with musician friends who have done this very thing, using me as their recording engineer one-on-one, and I can tell you what they seem to like - and what makes sense to me as well.

First, unless you're just recording a freejam, have the entire arrangement worked out pretty well in your head or on paper before you start recording. This will help in planning how to record each track in terms of mic selection and placement, EQ, etc.

Second, start with whatever track or tracks could stand on their own as a listenable solo song performance. For example, if you would normally play the guitar and sing the lyrics as a basic solo arrangement of the song, maybe start out recording exactly that. The guitar arrangement may be altered somewhat if you are planning other instruments, but that's OK. Play and record the song all the way through.

Then fill in the arrangement with the rest of the instruments on subsequent tracks. Once you have all the basic tracks (instruments) laid down, then you can go back and do any necessary punches/alternate takes to fix up weak spots or mistakes in any given track performance.

Then you can finish the mix process from there.

Make any sense?

G.
 
man I get the song down to where I can play it on guitar and sing it. then I set up the mics and have my girlfriend play drums to get levels, which I set real low because she doens't really hit them very hard. then i switch with her and have her hit record, while I play the drum part to the entire song. This is on tape mind you so there is no editing. no scratch track. then I go to the next song. It usually takes 2 or 3 takes to get the keeper. So I might do like 8 songs in a day or 2. then I take down the mics, and record guitars, then bass, then vocals, in the control room.
 
For a typical 3-4 person indie band, not groove-based:
Entire band plays live with focus on recording the drums tracks as keepers. The rest of the instruments serve as guides. Then guitar, vocal, & bass (in order) are recorded individually.
 
How do you go with getting a clean drum sound with no bleed from other instruments when you want to just get the drum track to dub on later?
 
I almost always put down a scratch track or two - just bung up a mic to get my acoustic or piano plus singing, then usually put down seperate generic acoustic and vocal tracks to replace that. This is all because I'm recording whilst I compose, so re-doing these parts helps me cement a new song in my head.

Usually all the acoustic guitar tracks to this point end up in the scrap, but quite often I'm surprised by the usability of the vocals (considering my lack of singingness).

Then it's a case of working out what else is going to be in the song, and building from there. Then re-doing the whole lot when I come back to it two days later and find out it's shite. :)
 
if i'm recording one of my songs i do it half a verse, half a chorus at a time over 2 days or so. but that's because my songs are hardly ever written before they are recorded.

if its someone else or a song with my band that is already written.
a drum track or click track with a rythm guitar then add everything in separately preferably.

i don't like doing live, whole song recordings of myself though.. its too tempting for me to say "wow that sounds great" and call it a finished product even though it isn't :)
 
Monkey Allen said:
How do you go with getting a clean drum sound with no bleed from other instruments when you want to just get the drum track to dub on later?
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Isolate them in another room.
 
Whatever order that works for you is right, most of us experimented untill we found what works for us, here's what works (most of the time) for me.
First, using a click track to keep me on time, I record a scratch track, typicaly rythm guitar and vocal. This is only a reference track and will get omitted after other tracks are recorded.
Second, drums, with the click as a reference to keep on time, I prefer to record the druns on multiple tracks so I can pick and choose which parts sound best to use in the mix.
Third, rythm guitar, basicaly a repeat of what is on the scratch track but with more care and clarity.
Fourth, bass.
Fifth, main vocal.
Now the scratch track can be forgotten. The order of things from this point on is pretty flexable and depends on what other instruments and additional vocals are to be added. The typical order (for me) would be...
Add melody track(s) keyboard or lead guitar, depending on what the song needs.
Additional melody track(s) secondary guitar, or whatever instruments needed.
Harmony vocals (if the song needs them.)
Often at this point I will rerecord the main vocal, depending on which version sounds best, or maybe a combination of both vocal tracks it's time to start the mix process.
The physical part is pretty much over at this point, the rest is a matter of balancing, EQing, adding effects or other enhancements, and getting it all to blend together.
The hardest thing for me was (and still is) to know when to stop adding more stuff in, it's easy to overcomplicate.
We all have our routines and methods but sinse you asked...that's pretty much the way it gets done at my house.




The more I learn...the more I realize how much I don't know.
 
Monkey Allen said:
How do you go with getting a clean drum sound with no bleed from other instruments when you want to just get the drum track to dub on later?
Click to expand...

Isolation or headphones. To isolate the kick you can place a roll of carpeting around the kick drum with the mic at the end.
 
I do about the same as Dani Pace. Either a click track or just a basic, quantized kick-snare-hihat drum part (outta my sequencer) that will get thrown out later. Usually the main melody comes next (guitar or piano), and just add from there. Bass guitar usually comes last because I play drums better if I have some music to drum to and I like the kick and bass tight together.
Basically, if what you're doin works for you, s'all good.
 
For me , I pick a tempo and put down guitar riffs. The major rythms/riffs ALWAYS go down first. Then I structure them and program drum beats. Then, I put down vocal ideas. Once I get the structure of the song from begining to end with guitar, vocals, and drums, I start all over and track the guitar again adding the variations, bridges, homonies, and little nuances that sound like they should be there. These replace the original tracks. As I am doing that, I am changing the drum mapping at the same time. Only then, when the guitars and drum maps are right, I'll put down the bass tracks. I wait for this point because it is easier for my ears to "hear" what the bass should be doing if it is not there. I am a bassist before anything else, so I think better that way. Then, when all feels and sounds right, final vocal tracks are laid down. Usually a LOT of 'em. At the very end, I put down the real live drums.
 
So, all in all, you suggest to experiment and decide what's better for me, whereas most opinions here stand for recording a basic track for the whole song, and then using it as a structure for the rest of the tracks. Maybe it's a good idea to try that style once. However, from experiment, I mostly have been doing it without any complete fundamental, just piece by piece.

A few questions popped up on the subject, however.

1) Isn't it better to record bass after other intruments, in order to let it kind of...talk to other ones? Like, if there is a skip, have a bass play some sort of riff. Or let bass speak with the whole rhythm, so that it fits effectively, and enhances the feeling. If you don't have the rest of layers, you can't really analyze where and how to insert bass... Do you agree or not, and why?

2) Do you think of a music you make in terms of frequencies? As in, let's say you have something high playing with bass and drums, and you think "i probably should paint in the mids with some ambient atmospheric licks".
 
neon glow said:
1) Isn't it better to record bass after other intruments, in order to let it kind of...talk to other ones? Like, if there is a skip, have a bass play some sort of riff. Or let bass speak with the whole rhythm, so that it fits effectively, and enhances the feeling. If you don't have the rest of layers, you can't really analyze where and how to insert bass... Do you agree or not, and why?
Click to expand...
That, to me, depends upon the song. If the bass is a fundamental part of the song's rhythm and/or is a main "hook" of the song, I like to get that early and build the rest of the mix around it. However, there may be other songs where it's like you describe, the bass is mostly for color and fill. In those cases the bass may be built in later in the process.

neon glow said:
2) Do you think of a music you make in terms of frequencies? As in, let's say you have something high playing with bass and drums, and you think "i probably should paint in the mids with some ambient atmospheric licks".
Click to expand...
Absolutely. This matters, again in my personal opinion, not only in figuring out the song's arrangement and in figuring out how to fill the spectral "dimension" of the soundscape, but also in planning mic usage and tracking strategy.

G.
 
Certain instruments sort of "carry" a song, it's a good idea to record them early in the process, then record them again late in the sequence. That way you have the chance to clean them up, blend the two (or more tracks) and add extra emphasis where needed.
 
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