How do you stop snare mic picking up lots of hi hat?

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Disease8

Disease8

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Recently recorded a live band and the snare mic is mostly hi hat.. tried different mics and positions. Any suggestions?
 
A few thoughts, kind of in order of how you should approach them...

Use a cardioid mic and try to keep the null of the mic pointing directly towards the hats.

This may involve getting the drummer to move the hats a bit... some drummers play with them right down at almost the same level as the snare, and it makes it impossible to get the mic in underneath. Tell them its necessary, and get them to raise them up 6 inches.

Top tip: cables with right-angled XLR connectors are very useful for snare mics.

If at this point you're still having problems, get stressy and blame it on the drummer. Get the drummer to play the hats more quietly, or hit the snare louder.

Trigger samples.
 
Use a super or hyper cardoid dynamic. And as Mattr said point the null at the hi-hat. The 441 comes to mind for this.

It's a big mic though, he may have to move the hat.
 
Adding a mic to the bottom of the snare will help a bit, also. However, it will give you a different sound than the top snare mic.
 
As a drummer don't go telling me to move my equipment. So after a dozen or so different mic selections I've found my best luck with the Beyer M201/Revox M3500. Got one from a guy in Germany. Best snare sound I've gotten with minimal hat bleed. Maybe a foam isolation to go between the mic and hat might help. Good luck.
 
Just record with kick and two overheads and be done with it...that will result in a natural drum sound.
 
zbert said:
As a drummer don't go telling me to move my equipment.
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Unfortunately, some drummers set their kits up in a way that makes it impossible to mic. The guys with rack toms 90 degrees to the ground with the 10 cymbals 1/8 inch off the top of the toms, absolutely no access to the top of the snare, etc... He either needs to move some stuff around or be happy with the sound he gets, because he tied your hands with the mic positioning.


That being said, the only time I hve problems with hat bleed in the snare mic is when the hat is way too close or when the drummer just beats the crap out of the half open hat while gently tapping on the snare.

A lot of drummers don't realise that they need to mix themselves to a certain extent. If he is one of those guys that bash the cymbals and tap on the drums, there is no way for you to save that. His dynamics are out of whack and he needs to fix that.

A drummer playing with appropriate dynamics can be captured with a kick mic and a pair of overheads and work in the mix. If you can't, it's the drummers fault.
 
Farview said:
Unfortunately, some drummers set their kits up in a way that makes it impossible to mic. The guys with rack toms 90 degrees to the ground with the 10 cymbals 1/8 inch off the top of the toms, absolutely no access to the top of the snare, etc... He either needs to move some stuff around or be happy with the sound he gets, because he tied your hands with the mic positioning.
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I have my studio kit set up the way *I* need it for the recordings...but I did work with my go-to drummer on what was also comfortable for him. He doesn't like some of the adjustments I make, and I try to give him what he feels comfortable playing even if I have to adjust mics more than usual. We worked on it together.
But yeah...a few drummers do have absolutely the *DUMBEST* looking kit setups. :D
I think much of is about their individuality, and they just want to look different than every other drummer…and some of it is about pure comfort and how THEY want to hear the kit.
They have to also appreciate how the audience hears it, and what it will take to get a decent recording of a kit.

AFA the Snare/Hat issue...I've used a few different mics, and am currently using a Sennheiser 604 about 2" off the Snare and pointing at about 45° at the head, with its ass (null point) perpendicular to where the drummer is hitting the HHat.
That doesn't remove the HHat, but the Snare is like 10 times louder in the mic than the HHat...so the bleed becomes irrelevant.
Then I also have the OH mics right above the Snare…so they reinforce the Snare while picking up just the right amount of HHat. I never mic the HHat directly.
Oh…you also need the right HHat. I have a Zildjian 13” Mastersound HHat that just seems to blend into the mix without ever being rude and stepping all over the Snare...but it's still crisp and audible in the mix.
 
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Try a fig-8.

I went to the trouble of building a real fancy like sheild-on-a-goose neck thingy. That helps a smidge, but basically.. it sets in the spare' box. Almost never use it.
 
Disease8 said:
Recently recorded a live band and the snare mic is mostly hi hat.. tried different mics and positions. Any suggestions?
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Make sure the mic is unidirectional and points nowhere close to the direction of the hat.
Failing that, ask RAMI ! :D
 
a drummer wailing on open hi hats can be a real bitch. Good suggestions so far to mind mic placement and kit setup. Also, tell your drummer that if he wants to beat on the hats, then he needs to beat on the snare too. Consider adjusting the hi hats so they pretty much touch when they're open so they'll still dampen themselves a bit when you hit em open. Also, try different hi hats if you can get your hands on some. If all else fails, consider triggering the snare (lol, I don't know how to do this, but I've come close to attempting it a few times).
 
Has anyone tried recording drums first, then cymbal work and high hat secondly?
 
i dont think any drummer should change his positions if he plays better that way that is the way he should play we are looking for the best performance, and what s the problem with a little bleed?
 
TheChikenMaster said:
i dont think any drummer should change his positions if he plays better that way that is the way he should play we are looking for the best performance, and what s the problem with a little bleed?
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I agree. Changing a drummers kit is just going to screw him/her up. The way I see it, ESPECIALLY recording live, we're there to capture the performance and do it with minimal distractions. If you go around moving the pieces of the kit just so you won't get as much hat bleed, then the drummer's performance will more than likely suffer.

If you're getting too much hi-hat bleed in your snare mic, then that's your problem...not the drummers.
 
moresound said:
Has anyone tried recording drums first, then cymbal work and high hat secondly?
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Yes. It takes a special kind of drummer to be able to do this with any feel. It's a talent over and above being a good drummer.
 
grimtraveller said:
Make sure the mic is unidirectional and points nowhere close to the direction of the hat.
Failing that, ask RAMI ! :D
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Hehe...Thanx Grim. Actually, Your first sentence would be my first answer.

I would also repeat what a few people said about it being up to the drummer to know HOW to play, in the sense that, if he bashes his hi-hats and but gently taps his snare, he needs to learn HOW to play.

CHILI: You have a good memory, man! :D I took down those pics because I don't do the baseball cap thing (though I do think it was ingenious :D ).

Personally, I don't care about a little bleed any more. It's never a problem.

So, in conclusion I'd say the 2 most important things are:

Point the back of the mic at the hats, as much as possible.
The drummer has to wack that snare, not the hi-hats and cymbals.
 
moresound said:
Has anyone tried recording drums first, then cymbal work and high hat secondly?
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure Def Leppard's "Pyromania" (back when the guy still had two arms) was recorded one drum at a time.
 
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