how do you sit your monitors?

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A1A2

A1A2

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just about every sm10 I have seen are sat sideway, and some others are sat in the same way. Now, I have read the manual for my reveal active, and it says that monitors should not be put that way, and they provided a diagram showing why.

Now, why do some people still sit there monitors side-way?
 
With near fields, it just ain't that big of a deal. With all the other acoustical problems in a controll room (early reflections from the console and such) just being on their side or sitting up is the least of problems. As long as they're either a couple of feet off from the wall, not right in the corners and on a median plain with your ears and focused to your listening position and you don't have something blatantly interfering with them acousticlly, they'll work.
 
thanks for the quick reply.

ok, so, i will take it that some ppl like the look of sitting sideway better.

since you mentioned, the back of my monitors are almost touching the wall due to the limited space I have. I know it's a big issue, but is there something I can put behind them instead of moving them 2 feet off the wall to help it? Also, when you are talking about corner, are you suggesting 2 feet+ off each wall?
 
Its an age old question and track rat is only 50% right...Im left handed so Ill be the other 50%.....Make sure the product label is in the upright position...Heh heh....

Whatever makes them sound better to you should be the reason why you do something. Im actually trying to sneak some silly putty for mine to sit on....It leaves a nice impression.



Peace,
Dennis
 
Well first of all...

The logo and printing on an NS 10 is "sideways".. They WERE designed to be sat that way...

Mid fields don't really matter but, near fields are so close to your ears that the slightest change in position can alter the way you hear them..

Bass is generally omnidirectional sounding... but highs sound more spread and you can hear the spread more clearly with the tweeter on the outside and further away from the center of your listening field..

Simple as that...
 
Keep in mind, that my point was.. it doesn't really matter.. It's just personal preference...
 
With near fields, it just ain't that big of a deal. With all the other acoustical problems in a controll room (early reflections from the console and such) just being on their side or sitting up is the least of problems. As long as they're either a couple of feet off from the wall, not right in the corners and on a median plain with your ears and focused to your listening position and you don't have something blatantly interfering with them acousticlly, they'll work.
Click to expand...

I will not claim to be an expert on the physics of speaker design (I'll have my brother post something later), but changing the orientation of a speaker will have quite an impact on how it sounds. (ignoring the anomolies of the control room acoustics, which is another issue all together) One of the biggest design considerations when building a speaker is driver interaction. The tweeter, midrange/woofer, and spacing/orientation of them plays a very important role in how the speaker will sound (along with the crossover design). A speaker designed for vertical placement laying on it's side will be percieved as sounding different because the drivers are interacting differently. Let's say you lay them on their sides with the tweeters to the outside...you will now have a slight delay from the tweeter vs the midrange/woofer, and more importantly, the tweeter is now playing through/past the midrange/woofer...causing a lobing effect because you're off axis.

Let me give you an example of a very poorly designed speaker that many of you probably have sitting on top of your TVs right now. The center channel of a home theater set up. Most home theater center channel speakers are set up in a MTM (midrange, tweeter, midrange) arrangement, and placed horizontally. This will cause huge lobing effects (because you now have two midrange speakers on both sides of a tweeter), and is the reason your so called 'matching' center speaker sounds adversely different than your mains. (Try your MTM center channel vertically once, and you'll see what I mean...it will change tremedously...probably for the better) MTMs are by design for use in the vertical plane only (with very few exceptions).

Don't get me wrong, speakers can be designed for horizontal use (like the old standard NS10), but if you placed it vertical, you'd be changing it's properites as well.

Just thouht I'd play devil's advocate for a bit...

Cheers.
 
When you have them sideways you have a more stable surface to place your bong ;)
 
I haven't tried my reveals sideway yet because the manual says so. I was hesitant to try different positions to my taste because I want the sound to be as accurate as I can. Otherwise, I would use my old computer speakers because they sound better (bass heavy)

I have a question about Reveal, are they light on bass or this is what I am "supposed" to hear? Because I've tried comercial rock and even hip hop songs on them and the bass just isn't there for me to feel the vibe. These reveals are my first "monitors" and I was wondering if this is normal or I got some serious accustic problem in my room?
 
I have my ns10s sideways mounted flush in the walls behind my workstation.

I hope this doesnt change any properties but Ive heard that this type of installation is reccomended
 
A1A2 said:
I haven't tried my reveals sideway yet because the manual says so. I was hesitant to try different positions to my taste because I want the sound to be as accurate as I can. Otherwise, I would use my old computer speakers because they sound better (bass heavy)

I have a question about Reveal, are they light on bass or this is what I am "supposed" to hear? Because I've tried comercial rock and even hip hop songs on them and the bass just isn't there for me to feel the vibe. These reveals are my first "monitors" and I was wondering if this is normal or I got some serious accustic problem in my room?
Click to expand...

If tannoy says the monitors should be upright, I think you should listen to them. I would believe that they know their monitors better then anyone of us.

And yes, the Tannoy Actives are a little bass shy. -> then, I find most monitors are. (maybe not as much as the tannoy's mind you, just much more then your typical home system)

They don't sound bad regardless.

Hip Hop songs tend to have bass below 50Hz as well... the Tannoy's will probably let you hear it, you just wouldn't feel it.

Get a sub. (Not that u should be mixing on them -exceptions to dance/hip hop/r&B)
 
I haven't tried my reveals sideway yet because the manual says so. I was hesitant to try different positions to my taste because I want the sound to be as accurate as I can. Otherwise, I would use my old computer speakers because they sound better (bass heavy)

I have a question about Reveal, are they light on bass or this is what I am "supposed" to hear? Because I've tried comercial rock and even hip hop songs on them and the bass just isn't there for me to feel the vibe. These reveals are my first "monitors" and I was wondering if this is normal or I got some serious accustic problem in my room?
 
weird, I thought my last post didn't get thru, so I posted it again. looks like I am repeating myself..ha

Anyways, my left monitor is sitting right in the corner. What can I do without moving it? Or I just have to get it out of the corner?
 
A1A2 said:
Anyways, my left monitor is sitting right in the corner. What can I do without moving it? Or I just have to get it out of the corner?
Click to expand...

You can move your room. :D

Tear down the walls in that corner? :D :D

Seriouslly, get em out... especially, if one's in the corner, and the other isn't. The one in the corner will probably be somewhat louder and more bass'ier then the other one... We don't want uneven monitors now, do we? :)
 
OK, placing most speakers on their side DOES change the way they sound to some degree. There are many factors at work here, the most glaring of which is the distance of the drivers from your ears and from the reflecting surfaces such as walls and the soundboard.

Distance equates to time of arrival. So let's say you are sitting at a mixing console with your monitors sitting sideways on top of the console. You have tweeters on the outside and the woofers on the inside. Draw a line from your ear to the woofer, and a line to the tweeter, and you can see that the tweeter is slightly farther away than the woofer! This causes problems in the region around the crossover point where the woofer and tweeter are both playing. Depending on frequency, this time difference effect can cause either a reinforcement of sound or a phase cancellation! What you get is called a "comb filter" effect, which when graphed on a frequency response chart looks something like this...

----/\/\/\/\-------

20Hz--------20K

Some freqencies boosted, some cancelled...

OK, that's just what's happening with the direct sound to your ear. Now consider the reflections you hear! The walls to the side of the speakers see the opposite time difference that your ears hear with the direct sound! Since the tweeter is closer to the wall than the woofer, there is a comb filter effect that is bouncing off the wall and diffusing into the room as reflected sound. This all combines into the total sound you hear and may have adverse effects.

There are some other reasons too, but they are a bit more esoteric.

Now, standing your speakers upright won't cure all this, as you still have ceiling reflactions and whatnot, but vertical is usually the best arrangement, as it avoids the most glaring issues.

Placing them on their sides may actually sound good in some cases, so if that's true in your case, go with it!

LooneyTunez is right on about the center channels BTW. An MTM arrangement (Midrange/Tweeter/Midrange) should NEVER EVER be place sideways! This type of speaker design is polarized vertically intentionally, and placing it on it's side for aesthetic reasons is acoustically hideous!
 
thanks for all the helpful info, guys. I will stick with what the manual says and sit them up.

WildFire:

you are correct, my left monitor is louder. I am glad you have mentioned that cuz I was wondering if one of them were broken. I guess I really have to do some arrangement in my room to fix this problem....sigh, that means at least 2 hrs of work, lol

thanks, guys.
 
A1A2 said:
WildFire:

you are correct, my left monitor is louder. I am glad you have mentioned that cuz I was wondering if one of them were broken. I guess I really have to do some arrangement in my room to fix this problem....sigh, that means at least 2 hrs of work, lol

thanks, guys.
Click to expand...

No prob...

You know whats cool, with the Mackie 824/624s, they installed a switch that alters the amp output depending on if its near a wall or a corner.. or if its out in the open. Thats pretty neat if you're room is really limiting. Heh, forward thinkers :) Wish I could afford the bloody things.

Helpfull hint.... wanna add a few DB to that home theater sub?.. put it near the corner of your room. :)
 
I think it depends on how anal (picky) you are. However having given a snotty answer there is an excellent answer to your question and just about every question you could ever ask about nearfields at this address ( basically a Tannoy manual in PDF format so you can print it if you like)

http://www.cortex.westhost.com/tannoy/files/REVEALman.PDF

Having said this, I was wondering where to put my speakers but I knew what I wanted. Only laziness held me back.

Finally I gave in and built some mounting cases that hang the speakers on their side (tsk tsk that's a no no) from the ceiling about four feet from my ears

They are angled down roughly 30 degrees and pointed exactly at my ears when I am monitoring. It sounds absolutely fantastic! The sound has a different feel than the usual sitting on a shelf or wherever.

My speakers are not powered and they are actually good quality stereo speakers which will have to do till I break down and get real monitors.

Any ways your answer isd at that website.

Enjoy

Cheers Alan
 
A1A2 said:
weird, I thought my last post didn't get thru....
Click to expand...

Mine never made it, so I will try again.

One thing about speaker design that irritates me, it that there are designed in a theoretical, idealogical and dysfunctional manner.
If the monitor is being designed for the studio environment, why do so many find it necessary to lie them on thier sides?
Looking at old and current console design, you notice that the meter bridge in most cases is at a level that is comfortable to look at without neck and eye strain. The knobs and other moveable components must also be easy to manipulate and the height must be such that a chair, with a human must be able to sit at the console. What this creates is a direct conflict with monitor location. In most cases if I take vertically aligned driver designed monitors and set them able a meter bridge or shelf location above, then the tweeter is above my head. Its less of a problem with narrow DAW because they can be put on stands on either side. But a regular run of the mill 24 channel console is too wide, too high to accomodate the vertically aligned driver designed monitor. A monitor places on its side can be angled such that the tweeter and mid/bass driver is the same distance from your ears. I would imagine that like all things, there is some tolerances involved and perfect and optimum are not the same. My toilet isn't desgned for puking, but it works great when I do. Anyhow, you need to adjust the monitors such it gives YOU the best sound for YOUR particular monitoring environment, chances are.....its not a speaker lab :0)


Peace,
Dennis
 
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