how do you rnp & VTB1 users rate the pres?

  • Thread starter Thread starter alba359
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I have talked to my dealer and Alan is right about one thing, the RNP is being sold through just the 3 dealers, but that is only temporary untill after January. But there is quite a wait on them now.

The VTB-1 is a bargain at twice the price, dont worry about getting your moneys worth there, I am very pleased with mine so far.
 
alanhyatt said:


I have a bridge I want to sell you..:eek: :eek:

All due respect Bowsic. I am not busting your balls here. You have been a good supporter for me and I will would not dis you...You know me better than that, but I know the business.

This is a way to keep the selling price high by not having more than two dealers. Plus when FMR sells it, they don't loose the dealer discounts that are passed on to the dealer for stocking them. So in fact, FMR makes a killing when they do sell direct at retail.

The profit points are good to the dealer...If they were not, the dealer would not invest their money and stock them. At 10% profit, a dealer looses money just based on the overhead costs they have like rent, lights, phone, and all the other expenses involved with running a business. At 20%, a dealer maybe breaks even, especially on an under $500.00 unit. At 30%, a dealer can live with it, and at 40%, they will kiss your ass.

Either way, a dealer is entitled to make money...end of story. They invest a good deal of money and expense to stock, advertise, service and sell these products.

So, this is just a monolopy for the two dealers right now, which is why it is in their best interest not to like any other mic amp in the low cost arena. If I had an exclusive on a hot product...its competition would sound like shit to me! For the record, Jake did not say that.

So if you believe the two RNP dealers are not making any money of the RNP...I have a bridge to sell you. :D :D


Alan,

No need to apologize in advance. ;) I know you can be very forward sometimes- I don't take it personal. Believe me, I am totally cool about learning how things work "behind the scenes", and have no problems being corrected... but let me clarify something that I should have emphasized (to all): My post was based on information from an RNP dealer. As far as I'm concerned, he was frank about it.

Here some background...

The impression I got from a dealer about the RNP was that they weren't making a whole lot on 'em. This was as a result of my trying to negotiate free 2nd-Day shipping on the unit and the dealer went into how he couldn't do it 'cause he was already offering free ground shipping and stretching a bit by even offering that (not exact words). I'm not complaining at all here; as it was, I was fortunate to be hooked-up with the unit through an arrangement he made, so I said, "no problem" and moved on. I wanted my RNP. Period. Very briefly, a comment was made on how there wasn't much of a profit margin on the RNP, which was why 2nd-Day was not do-able. A general figure was thrown out, which I won't be specific on... but it was close to the figures in my post. I feel a bit uncomfortable even going into it, but I feel the need to clarify this... it's quite obvious by now.

Alan, your point is quite interesting, but it would be good to hear the other side as well. This thread could turn very interesting. I'm sure there are many other reasons why, so far, Jake and Fletcher alone carry the FMR line. I would be careful about associating that with "monopolizing" and stopping there. :)

Some questions: So who really knows for sure what the mark-ups really are on the RNP, other than dealers? Does it really matter? It sure can, especially to its competitors.

In the long-run, consumers (us) will pay money for products for whatever reason, whether it's Neumann, Stephen Paul, RNP, or heck... even Mackie, even if marked-up big-time. For some, these reasons are justified. For others, it isn't.

You've shed some light here, Alan.

Tread carefully on this one, friends.


Bowisc

P. S. You said you had a T3 to sell me at cost... (was I hearing right)?
 
I was talking about www.transaudiogroup.com they are the actual FMR distributor. Most likely you have to go through them since manufacturers rarely screw thier main distributor that way. If you email them, they will tell you that FMR is not interested in further dealerships.
 
alanhyatt said:


If I had an exclusive on a hot product...its competition would sound like shit to me! For the record, Jake did not say that.

You're not talking about the Mackie with a Big Muff comment are you? ;)

Most buyers are more sophisticated than to buy into a comment like that.

BTW, I just reviewed the weekly stats for Mojo Pie. The four most requested pages are: 1. FMR RNP, 2. SP VTB1, 3. Soundelux U195, 4. Sytek MPX-4Aii.

steve
www.mojopie.com
 
tubedude said:
I was talking about www.transaudiogroup.com they are the actual FMR distributor. Most likely you have to go through them since manufacturers rarely screw thier main distributor that way. If you email them, they will tell you that FMR is not interested in further dealerships.

Actually, they are not a distributor for them. They are a rep. There is a big difference. A distributor services and sells to all the dealers. TransAudio Group just arranges the dealers for FMR and gets a commission.

Of course if I am wrong and Brad wan'ts to shed some light on his involvement, that is cool.
 
chessrock said:


Why would he? They carry both. Mercenary could have carried both if he wanted. Your argument doesn't hold a lot of weight. I think you're kinda' reaching on this one.


Hell, Im not reaching for anything other than the facts Jack! :)
 
For anyone starting from scratch, given the choice between;

1) 2 VTB-1's and using the $$ saved to get excellent recording
books, like the Mix Recording series, to learn how to record
EVERTHING better, and/or taking a recording course.

2) Buying an Fmr. Audio RNP for around $500

Which do you think is the better choice?

My point is that, especially among home recordists, there isn't enough emphasis on how important is improving our skills or how important the sound characteristics of the room you're using to
record in. Concerning ourselves with the fine points of mic pre's
is fine up to a point, it just isn't anywhere near as important as
the actual performance delivered. Especially if you don't have
Autotune! :)

Another factor is our ability to judge sound quality both on individual tracks, and in a mix.
THIS is one area where Alan, Harvey, Bruce (Blue Bear), and the
other "resident pros" have it all over the rest of us.
While you may think a given pre sounds better or worse than another on a given track, this ability typically takes more years of
professional experience than probably 99%+ of us will ever have.

Chris
 
chessparov said:
1) 2 VTB-1's and using the $$ saved to get excellent recording
books, like the Mix Recording series, to learn how to record
EVERTHING better, and/or taking a recording course.

2) Buying an Fmr. Audio RNP for around $500

Which do you think is the better choice?

From that perspective, an audio buddy and some education will beat the pants off of two Vipres and no education.
 
chessparov said:
For anyone starting from scratch, given the choice between;

1) 2 VTB-1's and using the $$ saved to get excellent recording
books, like the Mix Recording series, to learn how to record
EVERTHING better, and/or taking a recording course.

2) Buying an Fmr. Audio RNP for around $500

Which do you think is the better choice?

or, you could get the fmr rnp and buy the interactive guide to home recording from www.pomona1.com for $39. altogether that's a tad over $500.

i'm reviewing the interactive guide right now. it's a cd-rom. the cd-rom has a great section on eq'ing a mix where you hear it as it happens. that part alone is worth the $39. you might check it out.
 
So where is the book that tells us how to get that classic Neve preamp sound without having one? Ive seen most books out there and they are full of the same information, Much more Knowlege can be aquired By just reading articals in recording periodicals, and following someones style you like. Maybe an internship somewhere is an option.

Trouble is Ive read the books, and periodicals and they say Im missing the right equipment to get to the next step.

:confused:
 
I have compleately emptied out my inbox, but Im getting emails saying it is still full. Does anyone know what is wrong?
 
darrin_h2000 said:
I have compleately emptied out my inbox, but Im getting emails saying it is still full. Does anyone know what is wrong?

you might empty out your sent box as well.
 
Although if it's ME with two Vipres, and a REAL professional engineer
with an Audio Buddy...

The intent of the VTB-1 + education vs. RNP analogy was mainly
rhetorical, just to keep in mind the bigger picture of what's most
important. If you guys get a chance, check out the brilliant foreword
by Tony Visconti in the "Tape Op" book. His attitude on equipment is
quite profound.

Chris

P.S. Thanks Ozraves for the link! :)
 
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by darrin_h2000
I have compleately emptied out my inbox, but Im getting emails saying it is still full. Does anyone know what is wrong?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



you might empty out your sent box as well.


Done:)
 
chessparov said:
Although if it's ME with two Vipres, and a REAL professional engineer
with an Audio Buddy...

The intent of the VTB-1 + education vs. RNP analogy was mainly
rhetorical, just to keep in mind the bigger picture of what's most
important. If you guys get a chance, check out the brilliant foreword
by Tony Visconti in the "Tape Op" book. His attitude on equipment is
quite profound.

Chris

P.S. Thanks Ozraves for the link! :)

you're welcome. i understood your question to be rhetorical but i wanted to point out that while technology is giving us better gear at lower cost that it is also giving us better education at lower cost as well.
 
Originally posted by alanhyatt

The profit points are good to the dealer...If they were not, the dealer would not invest their money and stock them. At 10% profit, a dealer looses money just based on the overhead costs they have like rent, lights, phone, and all the other expenses involved with running a business. At 20%, a dealer maybe breaks even, especially on an under $500.00 unit. At 30%, a dealer can live with it, and at 40%, they will kiss your ass.

So, this is just a monolopy for the two dealers right now, which is why it is in their best interest not to like any other mic amp in the low cost arena. If I had an exclusive on a hot product...its competition would sound like shit to me! For the record, Jake did not say that.

So if you believe the two RNP dealers are not making any money of the RNP...I have a bridge to sell you. :D :D

Ok... I finally made it over here to shed a little light on my perspective.

First of all, the profit points are not that good at all right now on the RNP. The truth of the matter is, it is indeed below 20% at this point, and that's not including shipping to the customer, packaging materials, credit card processing fees, etc. In addition, FMR has no quick pay or shipping discounts. It honestly benefits me much more to sell two VTB-1's, which as you know, I'm happy to do since I like them just fine, especially at the price you set for them. You're post about points is right on the money (no pun intended). At 20%, we're not making much at all. Mark and Beth McQuilken might just kick me in the teeth for doing so, but I wouldn't be afraid to fax you a copy of an invoice so you could see how little the mark up right now is. You may or may not be surprised. Remember, the production runs are very small and they're building them by hand. They have mentioned it could change in the future with larger runs. At that point, we might be lucky to see 30 points.

But you are right about making profit on the RNP to some extent. If I were making nothing, I wouldn't sell it. No matter how good it is. I'm not in this for my health, and neither are you. If anything, it's killing us, eh? :) Seriously, we love what we do, so it's not only about the money. It's just nice to do what you love for a living, even if you work twice as much as before.

bowisc: I apologize if there was a miscommunication. I see you thought I'd mentioned $15, but what I actually said was $50. It wouldn't be the first time the two were confused over the phone since they sound very alike. :) And to be bluntly honest, I didn't see a reason to upgrade you to 2nd day air for free because (a) I had a waiting list a mile long, (b) I'm the only one doing free ground as it is, and (c) New York is only 1 more days shipping. There is another larger reason, but I imagine you know what that one is already. I still don't blame you for asking. A fellow would be crazy to not try to get the best deal possible. Any saved money is just that much closer to more toys! :)

Jake
Humbucker Music
www.humbuckermusic.com
 
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Thanks, thats true because when something comes along that a super product, we dont allways notice it, but when the price tag is low and the peice is good, we are all over it like flies on shit.

What gets me is the pricetaggery with this market. as long as we have a good unit at 500.00 we are ignoring that way supuior product $950.00 (Great River MP1NV), I havent read any reviews on it, but since there were phenominal reviews on the two channel version, Ive read enough reviews to maybe go for this one.

The sad fact is that we as homereccers arent rich for the most part, we have wives that notice when we bring something expensive into the house. and Its hard to hide our spending. As a result we are here on the board asking about audiobuddies and the Best mic under 100 dollars.
 
darrin_h2000 said:
What gets me is the pricetaggery with this market. as long as we have a good unit at 500.00 we are ignoring that way supuior product $950.00 (Great River MP1NV), I havent read any reviews on it, but since there were phenominal reviews on the two channel version, Ive read enough reviews to maybe go for this one.

Darrin:

I just happen to have the very first review anyplace at my project studio site...

http://www.piemusic.com/mp/mp1nv.html

Steve
www.piemusic.com
 
Excellent point Ozraves, and already understood by yours truly
on the educational value of our "toys".
The book referred to in my prior post is a "treasure trove" of
creative recording ideas though!

Chris
 
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