James Argo
Fancy Rock N' Roll
Bohemian Rhapsody (Queen) & Stairways to Heaven (Led Zeppelin). IF any of you pretend to be the song writter, then how do you think you did make these songs ?
stonepiano
Member
WHAAA...???
James, I've read many of your posts and you usually make sense but I have no idea what you're asking here. Maybe we could clarify a bit?
stone
James, I've read many of your posts and you usually make sense but I have no idea what you're asking here. Maybe we could clarify a bit?
stone
James Argo
Fancy Rock N' Roll
Man, I was going to figure out what the heck came into their heads, and put these shits out of their heads. What can I say, they (Queen & Led Zep's) are brilliantly geniuses. Until now, after almost thirty years, I still be amazed on how did they do it. Write, play / perform, and record them as well. They got a right key on the right key hole, opening a right door, leading to the right room. So I think I will collect what's in people mind if they are in position to write sumthin next to them. Everybody wants to write a song like these two. Being hit, classics, evergreen, deep & misterious, respected by almost every musician at every genres, and become the nominated of most best rock songs ever. So if you think you have any idea how to make these songs -even just come up with little simple idea- would be a great contribution. And... thank you so much. 
James Argo
Fancy Rock N' Roll
And... I'm asking for an oppinion rather than answer. So feel free to post whatever you think would be a good consideration for writing these kind of songs.
S
sjjohnston
New member
As far as lyrics: just remember whatever pops into your head.
I'd rather imagine I wrote "I Write the Songs," which I would write by imagining that I had written every other song.
I'd rather imagine I wrote "I Write the Songs," which I would write by imagining that I had written every other song.
James Argo
Fancy Rock N' Roll
sjjohnston said:
...aaaah, one good simple point. Anyone else ?
stonepiano
Member
ok. I'm still not totally clear but I'll give it a try. I'll assume you're asking how to write songs like these so I'll tell you what I think makes them special.
First, They have excellent performances by excellent performers caught on tape by excellent engineers...we all knew that.
Second, both songs run the gamut of emotions from slow and tender to up tempo and heavily distorted. In other words, they have a great deal of contrast; in volume, in tempo, in mood, in instrumentation and in arrangement.
I think the most integral aspects to both songs are the vocals and the drums. Drums so the listener can dance (or bang head, as per Wayne and Garth) and vox so they can sing along.
Notice I didn't say lyrics. I don't think anyone will argue that these lyrics are paramount to the success of either song. They are virtually immaterial. galileo figaro, manificoooooooooo? c'mon!
The lesson?! Worry more about an interesting arrangement than being a poet. Write lyrics that SING well. No one will give a shit what you're actually saying.
well, this is just my take on the reasons these two songs are good. When you write the next big one, I want a credit in the liner notes
First, They have excellent performances by excellent performers caught on tape by excellent engineers...we all knew that.
Second, both songs run the gamut of emotions from slow and tender to up tempo and heavily distorted. In other words, they have a great deal of contrast; in volume, in tempo, in mood, in instrumentation and in arrangement.
I think the most integral aspects to both songs are the vocals and the drums. Drums so the listener can dance (or bang head, as per Wayne and Garth) and vox so they can sing along.
Notice I didn't say lyrics. I don't think anyone will argue that these lyrics are paramount to the success of either song. They are virtually immaterial. galileo figaro, manificoooooooooo? c'mon!
The lesson?! Worry more about an interesting arrangement than being a poet. Write lyrics that SING well. No one will give a shit what you're actually saying.
well, this is just my take on the reasons these two songs are good. When you write the next big one, I want a credit in the liner notes
badgas
New member
I concur with StonePiano.
Cyrokk
Farce of Nature
What's really obvious about these two songs is their diversity: Stairway starts with a folk/country western feel (influences confirmed by John Paul Jones) that can also be heard in its predecessors Friends and That's the Way.. As the song progresses, you can hear jazz influences, particularly in the bass work during the Am7 bridges ("And it makes me wonder").. Then of course it moves to hard rock, which also has a funk figure attached to the rhythm guitars during the solo.
Bohemian Rhapsody is very similar to Stairway in the sense that it flows through different styles, from ballady barroom piano (ala Spread Your Wings) to the classical section to a jagged hard rock finale.
Dig deep into these bands and you'll find an array of different influences, sometimes from seemingly odd sources. This is what makes songs sound so powerful and original.
Cy
Bohemian Rhapsody is very similar to Stairway in the sense that it flows through different styles, from ballady barroom piano (ala Spread Your Wings) to the classical section to a jagged hard rock finale.
Dig deep into these bands and you'll find an array of different influences, sometimes from seemingly odd sources. This is what makes songs sound so powerful and original.
Cy
badgas
New member
Ah huh. No man is an island.
Everyone is influenced by someone when their creativeness flows.
Back in the 60s when I first heard Johnny Guitar Watson I thought that guy was the hottest thing going with a very original talent.
I hear him talking once about the guys who influenced him.
I guess some of us try for originality in our songs, but there is always an influence. After Cyrokks post I took a quick look at the songs I'm working on.
I see the influence.
I didn't see it before cuz I didn't look for it.
Thanks for the light bulb, Cyrokk.
Everyone is influenced by someone when their creativeness flows.
Back in the 60s when I first heard Johnny Guitar Watson I thought that guy was the hottest thing going with a very original talent.
I hear him talking once about the guys who influenced him.
I guess some of us try for originality in our songs, but there is always an influence. After Cyrokks post I took a quick look at the songs I'm working on.
I see the influence.
I didn't see it before cuz I didn't look for it.
Thanks for the light bulb, Cyrokk.
Cyrokk
Farce of Nature
No prob badgas (by the way, who's the mad dude in your avatar? Looks a lot like how I feel when I'm in the grocery store)..
Ya know, one of the best things anyone can do to improve their songwriting skills is to listen to a wide variety of musical styles. (Take one of Queen's earliest albums, "Sheer Heart Attack". Holy crap! There is a LOT of different styles on that album. First you are listening to pile driving 70s rock then BAM! You are now hearing a vaudeville skit).. That's probably my biggest weakness. A part of me just refuses to step out of rock/metal. For the longest time I've been meaning to get some James Brown and get into some good funk. I dig Johnny Cash, Liszt, Tom Scott, and Wagner as well, but everytime I go to a music store, I can't seem to tear myself away from the metal section (not that I feel bad afterwards).. So many bands, so little time.
Cy
Ya know, one of the best things anyone can do to improve their songwriting skills is to listen to a wide variety of musical styles. (Take one of Queen's earliest albums, "Sheer Heart Attack". Holy crap! There is a LOT of different styles on that album. First you are listening to pile driving 70s rock then BAM! You are now hearing a vaudeville skit).. That's probably my biggest weakness. A part of me just refuses to step out of rock/metal. For the longest time I've been meaning to get some James Brown and get into some good funk. I dig Johnny Cash, Liszt, Tom Scott, and Wagner as well, but everytime I go to a music store, I can't seem to tear myself away from the metal section (not that I feel bad afterwards).. So many bands, so little time.
Cy
James Argo
Fancy Rock N' Roll
Great post Stonepiano... This is exactly what I need to figure out in words. What -the make sense- thing you can describe about what made these songs are great written songs ever. The guitar part is also esential part in both songs. Remember
"... genng geng geeng geeng genng geeng geeeengg..." in Bohemian Rhapsody that bang your head till you drop ? I think both songs musicaly telling a stories. Emotions flows like a story goes. First, calm opening, then begun to be sad, cry, anger, mad, MAAADD, calm down, cooling, chill... go out by "nothing really matter... to mee... Anywhere the wind blows..." that was the "rest after sex" part... did I say SEX ? YESS !!! that's the natural point !!! They're just like sex. Meet, turning on, fore play, getting hot, penetration, struggle within, change positions, chasing more and more, getting high, oooOOOOOuucchhh.... , and finnaly "pheeww..." take a long deep breath, get rest...
"... genng geng geeng geeng genng geeng geeeengg..." in Bohemian Rhapsody that bang your head till you drop ? I think both songs musicaly telling a stories. Emotions flows like a story goes. First, calm opening, then begun to be sad, cry, anger, mad, MAAADD, calm down, cooling, chill... go out by "nothing really matter... to mee... Anywhere the wind blows..." that was the "rest after sex" part... did I say SEX ? YESS !!! that's the natural point !!! They're just like sex. Meet, turning on, fore play, getting hot, penetration, struggle within, change positions, chasing more and more, getting high, oooOOOOOuucchhh.... , and finnaly "pheeww..." take a long deep breath, get rest...
stonepiano
Member
I'll buy the "Sex=good song" analogy...
makes sense to me... isn't that why red lipstick is so instinctually attractive to men? It helps us visualize the ...
makes sense to me... isn't that why red lipstick is so instinctually attractive to men? It helps us visualize the
...
dragonworks
Banned
I strongly dislike stairway to heaven, allways did, boo for me.
badgas
New member
No boo from me, Dragonworks.
Everyone has their own taste and ya can't knock a guy for his taste, not his bag.
Everyone has their own taste and ya can't knock a guy for his taste, not his bag.
James Argo
Fancy Rock N' Roll
Once upon a time, there'e someone initialed DW get caught in the serious crime scene. As after long scene in court, he's punished 15 years in jail. One of his pain is he's not alowed to meet any spouse, nor having sex. Damn... no sex for fiveteen years...? Gimme a break...
After a few months, he turned into faggot. And he learn to take advantage pleasure of man to man sex. Yup... get his bottom up and be F*%@& . The problem was, everytime he's about to have his part F*%@&ing his sex mate's shity ass, the "time out" bell was always rung so loud, followed by the song "Stairways To heaven" shimmering. And the prison guard will showed up yelling "...OK boys, time's up ! Get yer dirty ass to your room ! NOW !!! ". For years he never had his part. Poor DW. I guess we'll have to excuse this gentelman to dislike Stairways To Heaven. It's a bad memory remains. He took a rehab. Quit before time. And decided to go on his life disliking the "pull your dick back" song...
That's only story... a tale...
No one claimed it was bassed on true story.
And he's buying a stairways to heaven...
We love you DW...
After a few months, he turned into faggot. And he learn to take advantage pleasure of man to man sex. Yup... get his bottom up and be F*%@& . The problem was, everytime he's about to have his part F*%@&ing his sex mate's shity ass, the "time out" bell was always rung so loud, followed by the song "Stairways To heaven" shimmering. And the prison guard will showed up yelling "...OK boys, time's up ! Get yer dirty ass to your room ! NOW !!! ". For years he never had his part. Poor DW. I guess we'll have to excuse this gentelman to dislike Stairways To Heaven. It's a bad memory remains. He took a rehab. Quit before time. And decided to go on his life disliking the "pull your dick back" song...
That's only story... a tale...
No one claimed it was bassed on true story.
And he's buying a stairways to heaven...
We love you DW...
foo
Active member
If we ever figure that out . . . !
Bohemian Rhapsody came about from Freddie's interest in Opera. He wanted to put together a song which featured Queen the rock band, piano and opera. I remember seeing a Brian May interview and he talked about how they went in the studio and thought Freddie was out of his mind - until it started to come together and they began to hear what he was trying to do.
As for Stairway - Jimmy and Robert probably sat down one day and just played and sang together until it showed up. And what a great day that was. The first time I heard it I was (like most other people) stunned.
Unfortunately, my two years in a guitar store ruined it for me. Hearing the intro played very badly three times a day and 10 times on Saturdays completely destroyed the song for me.
We finally had to put up a sign saying there was afine if you played it.
foo
Bohemian Rhapsody came about from Freddie's interest in Opera. He wanted to put together a song which featured Queen the rock band, piano and opera. I remember seeing a Brian May interview and he talked about how they went in the studio and thought Freddie was out of his mind - until it started to come together and they began to hear what he was trying to do.
As for Stairway - Jimmy and Robert probably sat down one day and just played and sang together until it showed up. And what a great day that was. The first time I heard it I was (like most other people) stunned.
Unfortunately, my two years in a guitar store ruined it for me. Hearing the intro played very badly three times a day and 10 times on Saturdays completely destroyed the song for me.
We finally had to put up a sign saying there was afine if you played it.
foo
Cyrokk
Farce of Nature
Actually that's fairly close to the story foo. Jimmy had a rough arrangement of the song on cassettes, and gave it to Robert during the sessions for the album at Headley Grange. Robert sat by a fire and worked out a little more than half the lyrics off the cuff..
It was one of those rare moments when music and lyrics come together naturally with little effort.
Cy
It was one of those rare moments when music and lyrics come together naturally with little effort.
Cy
A
alienelvis
New member
I bet if you found out who they ripped off you wouldn't be so impressed.
I don't think they wrote these songs while trying to figure out how someone else writes songs. I think it's band chemistry , circumstances and luck.
In my experience I've found that if you idolize something "out there" you devalue what's inside yourself get frustrated and stop.
One thing these bands have that you CAN work on is the awesome sounds. Just think if you had led zeppelin at your disposal. You could write a dopey blues song (Well I woke up this mornin' and my dog done died) and it would sound great.It would be on the radio 20 years later.
led zeppelin was often accused of "borrowing" blues riffs. So if you ever figure out how they wrote "stairway" you should contact them and let them know!
I don't think they wrote these songs while trying to figure out how someone else writes songs. I think it's band chemistry , circumstances and luck.
In my experience I've found that if you idolize something "out there" you devalue what's inside yourself get frustrated and stop.
One thing these bands have that you CAN work on is the awesome sounds. Just think if you had led zeppelin at your disposal. You could write a dopey blues song (Well I woke up this mornin' and my dog done died) and it would sound great.It would be on the radio 20 years later.
led zeppelin was often accused of "borrowing" blues riffs. So if you ever figure out how they wrote "stairway" you should contact them and let them know!
foo
Active member
Yep - and if you do a search on some of my posts you will see that I have already accused Mr. Page of outright theft (from Bert Jansch) - and lyrically of course from Robert Johnson (Squeeze me baby . . .) and Albert King (Call me the hunter . . .).
I don't necessarily include riffs/licks - although there is no doubt that some major Zep stuff came from other sources - eg the intro to 'You shook me'. Seems like I remember it coming from an old McKinley Morganfield tune, written by Willie Dixon and with . . . (?) Hubert Sumlin (maybe, anyone?) on guitar. But all the old blues guys 'borrowed' licks from each other.
Yes Cyrokk - I did say probably because I don't know the story, but I can just picture RP sitting by the fire singing to himself - and smiling.
Apparently not, though.
So El, where did they get Stairway from?
What famous football coach said "Luck is when preparation meets opportunity". And another one said "It's pretty amazing - the harder I work, the luckier I get".
foo
I don't necessarily include riffs/licks - although there is no doubt that some major Zep stuff came from other sources - eg the intro to 'You shook me'. Seems like I remember it coming from an old McKinley Morganfield tune, written by Willie Dixon and with . . . (?) Hubert Sumlin (maybe, anyone?) on guitar. But all the old blues guys 'borrowed' licks from each other.
Yes Cyrokk - I did say probably because I don't know the story, but I can just picture RP sitting by the fire singing to himself - and smiling.
Apparently not, though.
So El, where did they get Stairway from?
What famous football coach said "Luck is when preparation meets opportunity". And another one said "It's pretty amazing - the harder I work, the luckier I get".
foo
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