How do you know there is more noise than normal?

C

Centropolis

New member
Sorry about the newbie questions......I am still pretty new to recording even though I own a bit of equipment for a while.

For those who are using or used a cheap all-in-one box multi-track records, like a Fostex MR-8 or a Boss BR-600, how do I know that the noise I am hearing is "normal" because of the quality of the unit due to its price point?

I recently bought a used Fostex MR-8 to upgrade my Tascam Portastudio 424. (Some of you may think that's a downgrade but what I mean it upgrade to digital.) And here is what I am hearing:

- no inputs are active, I just plug my headphones into the jack and I turn up the volume to about 80% and I hear this hiss and if I turn it to max, I hear what sounds like electrical interference sound. Is this normal because of the cheap electronic parts that are used?

- when I activate the input (e835) and put the trim to where it needs to be to get a good signal, there is additional noise added that I can hear, I think this is normal....or is it even for a cheap unit?

I have been thinking of getting the DMP3 preamps to upgrade the sound but if the built-in pres of my MR-8 is already noisey, does it matter if I have a cleaner preamp in front of the noisey preamp? I guess I would have to turn the built-in pre off? Does anyone know that I can do that in the MR-8 MKII? I didn't read anything like that in the manual.
 
Make sure all of your FX/AUX returns are turned down until you're ready to use them..as well as any unused tracks.
 
It's not really about just the *noise*, it's more about the *signal-to-noise*.

Turn up all the knobs on most mixers to 80% without any signal, and yeah, you will hear some hiss.
The thing to do is have some music playing at a *good/comfortable* level, and then see how much noise you hear when the music stops, or during very soft passages.
If you still hear a lot of hiss at that point when there is no music...then maybe you have electronic issues.

Keep in mind, that at 80%...if you played any music...the music will be very loud, and it will mask out and exceed the noise/hiss by a good ratio...hence the term *signal-to-noise*.

On most of my headphone connections on just about any of my studio boxes or my mixer...I rarely even get to 50% with the headphone volume knob...because it's TOO LOUD! :D
 
The main thing is that it should be silent, or very close to it when you are at your normal listening level. Even the best gear has noise when it's cranked full.

Make sure you have an amp powering your speakers that doesn't need to be turned up much... mine is running at about 30 or 40% of it's max.

Maybe you could start out with nothing plugged in and slowly add pieces to isolate any noisy cables or such.

I make my own cables and I'm big on that - the ones you buy are a rip and usually aren't as good as what you can make.

I always have to automate the first of songs on my mixers so that it's dead silent before any music happens.

The bottom line is if there's any noise that bugs you in the final product.
 
miroslav said:
It's not really about just the *noise*, it's more about the *signal-to-noise*.

Turn up all the knobs on most mixers to 80% without any signal, and yeah, you will hear some hiss.
The thing to do is have some music playing at a *good/comfortable* level, and then see how much noise you hear when the music stops, or during very soft passages.
If you still hear a lot of hiss at that point when there is no music...then maybe you have electronic issues.

Keep in mind, that at 80%...if you played any music...the music will be very loud, and it will mask out and exceed the noise/hiss by a good ratio...hence the term *signal-to-noise*.

On most of my headphone connections on just about any of my studio boxes or my mixer...I rarely even get to 50% with the headphone volume knob...because it's TOO LOUD! :D
Click to expand...

Thanks for the insight. I think I understand what you mean. I will go home tonight and try again. I definitely need to turn my headphones volume to past 50% to hear the details so maybe my signal is too weak when recording. I am not using a preamp right now and using just a dynamic mic! :eek:
 
Yes, if your initial signal is weak, and you need to turn up the gain on subsequent gear...then you also pull up the noise floor and your signal-to-noise ratio gets smaller.

You want a solid signal from the start, and then you set your gain structure along the signal chain to maintain that solid signal, rather than try to make up for it at the end of the chain.
You want to shoot for "nominal" settings...which means that point where each piece of gear has it's most "neutral" gain setting if at al possible...basically, it puts out what it takes in, equally.
If you have to make up the gian too much or lower it too much, that means the previous piece in the chain didn't have a good signal.
Of course, there is some room to work with, which is why most gear has a gain knob...but start with a good signal, and you will always be able to maintain it throughout.

Proper gain structure is very important in analog and digital worlds.
 
miroslav said:
Proper gain structure is very important in analog and digital worlds.
Click to expand...

Very true. I think that unit is 16 bit, so even more true.

(but for people out there recording in 24bit, track less hot please...peak no hotter than -10db for your next mix and then just be happy when it sounds better).

Sorry for the sidebar, lol.
 
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