How do you cope with criticism?

[Dogbreath]

Group hug!!!

 

[Dogbreath]

Well, at least you didn't try to group hug everyone.

uh......

 

[grimtraveller]

But, through criticism we have the opportunity to learn and improve from their suggestions.

It's also a glorious opportunity to ignore those suggestions !






I'm just kidding !

 

[miroslav]

It's also a glorious opportunity to ignore those suggestions !
I'm just kidding !

Naaa, no need to kid about it… ...it's probably best to ignore most of it, since much of the criticism on Internet music forums is very often subjectively skewed by the giver's personal music tastes (or their "political" positions).

People “vote” for what they like to listen to and/or play…which is fine…and not very surprising.
It's best to just stick to your own direction/interests...otherwise you fall prey to trying to please people...and we know how that usually works out.

 

[kcearl]

dunno most folks here arent into my stuff.....but much of the criticisms have been spot on...even on some of my compositional stuff, which should supposedly be my "vision"


I think if your a good homeproducer you know what you're talking about regardless....engineering your own work gives you the skills to critique others and their genres pretty accurately imho


I mean how dare rock musicians tell me my Drum & Bass track lacked sub frequencies...it did, they were right...I doubt theyd ever listened to a D&B track all the way through before

 

[miroslav]

Well...I guess a lot of it depends on how YOU were hearing your stuff to begin with.

There are certain sonic qualities that can be traced back to poor tracking or poor mixing techniques, but there are also many criticisms on sonic qualities that are more about subjective choices...like how you WANTED the bass guitar to be - distorted or soft or loud or clean...etc....etc. Those can be choices and not simply the result of poor technique.

So one has to first decide if their techniques are solid and if their results are coming from specific choices...or if they are lost in their techniques and the choices are simply the result of that.

If someone is not sure about their techniques and choices, then by all means, they can/should listen to the criticism and from that take what they will, though again, the criticism has to be weighed out AFA where/why it's coming from.
Otherwise, if you are not questioning your techniques, then what comes after that are specific choices, and they won't always be appreciated by all who hear them. That's where you should stick with your own "vision".
But no matter which it is...folks DO tend to hear & critique from their own personal, style/taste for a lot of stuff. It does influence how they hear other styles of music, IMO.

IOW...you have to first make a clear/honest judgement of your vision and efforts before you can make sense of any critiques and where/why they are coming from.

 

[kcearl]

yeah thats what i meant lol

 

[miroslav]

Yeah...well maybe it was a mouthful that sounded all philosophical and everything, but I was just saying that sometimes you have to go with what YOU think is right.

You can have 20 guys tell you the bass should be louder in the mix...but if you don't agree...who is right???

That's not a technical issue...that's a subjective choice, and one needs to always sift through the criticism to find where it's coming from and why.
Often it IS about subjective choices…and not always about poor techniques.

 

[kcearl]

You can have 20 guys tell you the bass should be louder in the mix...but if you don't agree...who is right???

20 guys on the street? youre probably right


20 experienced homerecorders? theyre probably right


unless youre deliberate in making the bass quiet in the mix, then they could say whether they thought it worked or not as an opinion, thats all...

even after a year, and some pretty positive comments on most of my recent mixes, I still cant really tell if its there yet....I dont know when that will happen but there are around 5 or 6 guys here I trust 100% to get it right


and they havent got it wrong so far...if more than two of those guys say there something wrong in there, I look...when I hear a mix come straight out and I dont have to ask...thats when Ill probably stop posting here

 

[miroslav]

20 guys on the street? youre probably right


20 experienced homerecorders? theyre probably right

Well...that can go both ways, depending on your target audience, and big-picture goals...etc.
I'm not saying NEVER listen to criticism....just watch how you hear it/use it.
Really...it's up to the receiver to decide what to do with it.

...when I hear a mix come straight out and I dont have to ask...thats when Ill probably stop posting here

Well that will be a sad day for all....

 

[kcearl]

Well...that can go both ways, depending on your target audience, and big-picture goals...etc.
I'm not saying NEVER listen to criticism....just watch how you hear it/use it.
Really...it's up to the receiver to decide what to do with it.




Well that will be a sad day for all....

lol not for the cave...


Btw Im going to see Muse tonight...Im tempted to make a banner that says "turn the bass up 3db and the keyboard needs panned further right"...bound to make the video

 

[miroslav]

Btw Im going to see Muse tonight...Im tempted to make a banner that says "turn the bass up 3db and the keyboard needs panned further right"...bound to make the video

Go for it...I'm sure it will go over well with the band……though if they have a good sense of humor, they will probably chuckle.

That's kinda what I was getting at...that most "street guys" don't give a crap about specific stuff like that. I think we (the "rec" crowd) can sometimes get too caught up being analytical in our critiques about sonic minutia, when in fact the critiques are purely subjective/creative views that may or may not actually affect how the music is perceived by the target audience.
There's been a lot of less than stellar quality music across all genres (not just the top 40 pop) that's been well accepted and loved by large audiences…
….so who's to say the bass needs to be 3dB louder and keys panned further to the right?

Like...I bet if Led Zep or Gaga or Nirvana or Beatles or Metallica...etc, etc...were still unknown acts and they put some of their finished songs up for critique in the MP3 clinic...
...most of the "20 experienced home recorders" would find lots of "faults" with the sonic quality…but how much of it would be pure subjective opinion?


Have fun at the concert!

 

[kcearl]

Go for it...I'm sure it will go over well with the band……though if they have a good sense of humor, they will probably chuckle.

That's kinda what I was getting at...that most "street guys" don't give a crap about specific stuff like that. I think we (the "rec" crowd) can sometimes get too caught up being analytical in our critiques about sonic minutia, when in fact the critiques are purely subjective/creative views that may or may not actually affect how the music is perceived by the target audience.
There's been a lot of less than stellar quality music across all genres (not just the top 40 pop) that's been well accepted and loved by large audiences…
….so who's to say the bass needs to be 3dB louder and keys panned further to the right?

Like...I bet if Led Zep or Gaga or Nirvana or Beatles or Metallica...etc, etc...were still unknown acts and they put some of their finished songs up for critique in the MP3 clinic...
...most of the "20 experienced home recorders" would find lots of "faults" with the sonic quality…but how much of it would be pure subjective opinion?

I agree with this 100%...i also think we are harsh critics in here sometimes..since doing this though I have listened to older recordings and winced...and thought "really?".... I mean who the fuck am I! lol

its a double edged sword, I enjoy music differently now, I also have lost innocence as just a listener though

Have fun at the concert!

will do...in true Scottish style its beer o'clock at 3pm

 

[miroslav]

I also have lost innocence as just a listener though

Do you feel violated?



Yeah...the more you learn to "zoom in" when listening, the harder it gets to just *listen* and enjoy the overall effect of a piece of music and ignore the individual details that make up that piece of music.

 

[benherron.rrr]

Do you feel violated?



Yeah...the more you learn to "zoom in" when listening, the harder it gets to just *listen* and enjoy the overall effect of a piece of music and ignore the individual details that make up that piece of music.

I really find that difficult now, Im concentrating really hard on mixing nowadays, I find that every song I listen to im trying to figure out where everything is in the mix, what effects are used and what nuances I hear. Especally with vocals. how do I take criticism? by cowering in the corner hoping one day I have the balls to let others listen.

Kc, I saw muse last week, my favorite band and one of my biggest musical influences

 

[kcearl]

i just got in...i doubt very much there is a greater live act in the world right now...that was perfect, blew me away..highlight was the start all the way to the end, then the lights came up and everyone went wtf was that???..


i didnt think they could improve on Reading 2006...they did, and some

 

[benherron.rrr]

i just got in...i doubt very much there is a greater live act in the world right now...that was perfect, blew me away..highlight was the start all the way to the end, then the lights came up and everyone went wtf was that???..


i didnt think they could improve on Reading 2006...they did, and some

Is that the space ship thing they had? They are amazingly tight as a band. I would love to have one of those manson guitars ! You must of seen them in america, sorry if thats a stupid question. I hear they aint that big over the other side of the pond.

Btw, when we are talking about criticism, are we talking about the production, or the actual music? My music being criticised would bother me a hell of alot more than my production skills, However I tend to feel alot of preassure from people. being on here, and at uni. I get scared of playing my work because I feel people will laugh at how crap it is, And I have a great willingness to make others belive Im half decent. spending alot of time writing and recording songs. I would like to belive that it is somthing that people think im good at. its the fear of rejection I dont like

 

[kcearl]

Is that the space ship thing they had? They are amazingly tight as a band. I would love to have one of those manson guitars ! You must of seen them in america, sorry if thats a stupid question. I hear they aint that big over the other side of the pond.

they played with three columns thats had images project on and raised platforms up and down...but really the eye candy is just an extra...they sound absolutely amazing....and for all I have their albums theyre not someone I listen to all that often but I knew every track last night, which just made ir feel like Keiths greatest hits


yeah theyre fairly low key over here, but San Diego's got a cool music scene so they still managed 12,000 last night even though they played nearby a couple of months ago...so big enough for the full effect, yet small enough to see it all

Btw, when we are talking about criticism, are we talking about the production, or the actual music? My music being criticised would bother me a hell of alot more than my production skills, However I tend to feel alot of preassure from people. being on here, and at uni. I get scared of playing my work because I feel people will laugh at how crap it is, And I have a great willingness to make others belive Im half decent. spending alot of time writing and recording songs. I would like to belive that it is somthing that people think im good at. its the fear of rejection I dont like

I think they/we are talking both...lets face it you have to put that "my music is my art" thing on the shelf if you are going to ask people for comments online...Id guess mine and Gregs music get the most pokes of derision outside of the mp3 clinic, but not so inside it (best part of this website imo)..if you cant take it though, dont post it...if you post it..take it...simple rule

If you are hoping to improve and have people help who care then folks generally know and stick to the script, if you are posting because you think you are the next big thing in Cock Rock then you better be good

 

[benherron.rrr]

they played with three columns thats had images project on and raised platforms up and down...but really the eye candy is just an extra...they sound absolutely amazing....and for all I have their albums theyre not someone I listen to all that often but I knew every track last night, which just made ir feel like Keiths greatest hits


yeah theyre fairly low key over here, but San Diego's got a cool music scene so they still managed 12,000 last night even though they played nearby a couple of months ago...so big enough for the full effect, yet small enough to see it all



I think they/we are talking both...lets face it you have to put that "my music is my art" thing on the shelf if you are going to ask people for comments online...Id guess mine and Gregs music get the most pokes of derision out of the mp3 clinic, but not so inside it (best part of this website imo)..if you cant take it though, dont post it...if you post it..take it...simple rule

If you are hoping to improve and have people help who care then folks generally know and stick to the script, if you are posting because you think you are the next big thing in Cock Rock then you better be good

WOW thats wierd, I saw that set last year, When I saw them a couple of weeks ago they had a podeum out from the stadium which raised up in the air, and a big space ship shaped balloon. with an alian hanging down from it dancing around . 12000 peeps. . . can't go wrong there Im one of those guys thats listened to everything they have put on tape.

music aint my art, its my relief. some peeps get depressed or angry and hit things/people/cry, I go write a song, even if its got no relivence. I aint to self confident, the kinda guy who people enjoy kicking down at every turn. s'pose spending a large majority of my life teaching my self all about this world. Makes it scary thinking people could turn around and tell me to give up.. however it could go the opposite. Im determined to do it one day, and I will.

KC. . . I'll make your cock rock anyday

 

[kcearl]

steady on sir


im lucky enough to be a prick both on and offline...nothing said anywhere bothers me, and if it does I just go out at night and kill a neighbours pet