how do you blend electric guitar and bass

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picostudios

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im recording a heavy rock band. im trying to mix both the bass and guitar together. i get them to sound good, but they do not blend well. i keep messing with different frequencies, but it doesnt sound good together. you can hear the 2 and what they are doing, but it doesnt sound well together.
 
Do you mean that your trying to record both to one track? Explain what your trying to do and WHY you are tring to do it.
 
Maybe throw a high pass on the guitar to give some room for the bass? Anything is worth a try.
 
yes they are. whats a high pass filter? Not sure if I have one of those. Im using adobe audition
 
In general if your electric guitar and bass guitar aren't seperating well most of the time I find it's because there is too much bass on the guitar, too few mids, and too many sour highs. In other words--you probably used the "scooped" setting.

Don't do that.

Also, it's not how things sound on their own that counts--it's how they sound all together.

For me I record bass first and then I get my guitar sound. That way I know I have low end, but am not tempted to put the bass on "10" on the guitar amp. Heck, I usually put the guitar amp's bass on about 3.
 
High Pass Filter is when you pick a freq and will only allow anything above (higher) pass through. So if you put a HPF on the guitar at 100Hz it will fade out from their down.

The top of this image is an example. Don't look at the numbers because this isnt for audio. Just look at the curve.
 

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I have an FFT filter on adobe audition, now sure if it has a high pass filter.
 
the industry standard response:


You're guitars are on the outside while your bass rolls right through the middle.


But allow me to elaborate a little more. What I'm about to say is gonna save you the pain of ever having to fight with anything in a mix ever again. At least I hope so.

If you listen carefully to commercial mixes, they often tend to rely on subtractive EQ. What that means is you never boost any signal, only attenuate or "cut". Many engineers are religious about this.

A big problem for most people is understanding the effects of EQ. If you take from one, it's going to affect something else in the mix. But a usual culprit is the mid-low range. This is where alot of frequencies tend to collect during mixdown, resulting in very muddy or bass driven mixes.

If that sounds like a good thing, but it's not always the case. Bass can take away from the clarity of the other instruments.

So try this for starters:

Track any main guitars twice (doubling) without any EQ or effects, then pan each anywhere from 50-100 percent right or left. Apply a highpass filter to all guitars and have the drop off begin from 230hz and below. The frequencies below that aren't usually nessesary on a guitar. Leave your bass centered. It might feel unconfortable at first, but you realize how it works fairly quickly.

This should make it alot easier to blend instruments because the guitars aren't taking alot of low end anymore.
 
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I know that heh, when i play them together its as if they are just on top of each other and not melding well.
 
To get intstruments to blend together, becoming one...roll off the top leaving the bottom...you can also EQ the same frequencies on two different instruments, like, emphasize (I agree on subtractive eq!) something like:

Bass : 20, 40, 80, 160, 320hz
Guitar : 160, 320, 740hz etc.

I beleive I am correct in saying that doubling the Freq. Numbers doubles the Octive of the freq. and therefore makes it pure, clear, and present. Also, by emphasizing 320 and 740 in both the guitar and bass, the istruments should blend very well together.

Compositionaly there are rules about blending instruments...and by doing what you are doing, it is possible that your music will not sound as large as it could because you are usuing two different voices to say one thing when you could be usuing two voices to say two things...that's up to your own judgement if you want to blend or not...but so you know...you are sorta maybe possibly going against the grain.

Best O' Luck
 
Ignition. said:
To get intstruments to blend together, becoming one...roll off the top leaving the bottom...
Click to expand...

Why would you do that???

A lot of 'seperation' occurs in the 10khz and above range with the upper harmonics. Why would you want to lose that? Plus, the audio quality would take a major hit.
 
Ignition. said:
Bass : 20, 40, 80, 160, 320hz
Guitar : 160, 320, 740hz etc.

I beleive I am correct in saying that doubling the Freq. Numbers doubles the Octive of the freq. and therefore makes it pure, clear, and present. Also, by emphasizing 320 and 740 in both the guitar and bass, the istruments should blend very well together.
Click to expand...
Did you mean 320 and 640?

And something I've never understood: would subtractive EQ at those specific frequencies have a different effect on a song keyed in E (where those frequencies are the fundamentals), than one keyed in, say, Bb?
 
Cloneboy, not sure what you mean by "seperation"...that is beyond my knowledge by what you mean with that term. I suggested to roll off the top cause doing so will cause those instruments (guitar and bass) to slip into the backround a little bit, and therefore give them less definition...and I think less deffinition on the guitar and bass would help to blend them together and therefore make them sound like one instrument...not two, and to my understanding that is what picostudio wants. And yes, I agree, the sound quality will take a hit by doing that. Any EQ will cause a hit to the sound. How much one would boost or cut the EQ would also make a difference on how major the hit would be.

And yes, deshead, thank you for keeping me honest, I did mean 640, not 720...I got carried away thinking about flatland rotations and my math went out the window.

Peace yo's.
 
blending

in some case i got the same problem
cut the bas a bit on the guitar (70 hz) lowest E is aprox 80 hz
Ad a little mid in the guitar (800hz - 1.5k)
cut on the bas a bit mid (800hz - 1.5k)
mabe compress the bas a tad

See if that helps

you know what, put up a sample , that would help

Remco
 
LRosario said:
Apply a highpass filter to all guitars and have the drop off begin from 230hz and below. The frequencies below that aren't usually nessesary on a guitar. Leave your bass centered. It might feel unconfortable at first, but you realize how it works fairly quickly.

This should make it alot easier to blend instruments because the guitars aren't taking alot of low end anymore.
Click to expand...


This is right on the money. Especially with distorted guitars, too often they
have their amp set with a truckload of low end . . . they end up trying to be both
a bass and a guitar! . . . I use a high pass eq setting to roll off everything below
150 to 200 hz on distorted guitars. Be aware that when you
do this, then solo up the channel, the guitar will probably sound thin to you
when it's being played back by itself . . . but it gets the guitar's low end out of the
way and lets the bass do its job. This can result in what appears to be huge guitar tone . . .
because the bass is filling in the low end as it should,
without the low end of the guitar adding to the mud.

Additional suggestions . . . dont scoop the mids out . . . if you want more bite,
boost 2.5k from 2 to 5 db . . . use a true tube head or combo to record, and
make the guitar player double track the rhythym parts then pan them in the mix to taste . . .
use two mics to record each aimed at a seperate speaker.
I use shure 57 and Studio Projects C1 . . . however I did just get a Sennheiser
e609 black which I havent tried yet but have heard plenty of good things about.

For an example of the tone that these tricks can result in, check these links:

http://www.halftheworld.cc/music.html



Hope this helps!
 
Cloneboy Studio said:
In general if your electric guitar and bass guitar aren't seperating well most of the time I find it's because there is too much bass on the guitar, too few mids, and too many sour highs. In other words--you probably used the "scooped" setting.

Don't do that.

Also, it's not how things sound on their own that counts--it's how they sound all together.

For me I record bass first and then I get my guitar sound. That way I know I have low end, but am not tempted to put the bass on "10" on the guitar amp. Heck, I usually put the guitar amp's bass on about 3.
Click to expand...

Cloneboy, you're a man after my own heart.

Guitars live in the midrange, so if they weren't tracked with any mids you could run enough hi-pass to kill a small rhino and they still wouldn't cut. I've found that clean guitars can sound wonderful without too much midrange, but big, buzzy, gainy guitars lose all clarity and voicings when the mids are cut. Also, some dumb metal guitarists turn their lows up to 11 to get that "woofy" sound and all that does is dance on the bass player's toes.

Then again, if your guitars weren't scooped or boosted in the lows to begin with, then I sound like a pretty big turd right now. You should post something if you can so we can hear it.

Best of luck and have fun!
 
riantide said:
Guitars live in the midrange, so if they weren't tracked with any mids you could run enough hi-pass to kill a small rhino and they still wouldn't cut. I've found that clean guitars can sound wonderful without too much midrange, but big, buzzy, gainy guitars lose all clarity and voicings when the mids are cut. Also, some dumb metal guitarists turn their lows up to 11 to get that "woofy" sound and all that does is dance on the bass player's toes.
Click to expand...

Hell yeah!

I'm thinking of adding a Marshall Plexi SLP reissue (w/ some mods) or a Plexi 1987x to my studio lineup (and for me personally). The pure sound of righteous RAWK!

:)
 
I have a friend that just got a JTM45 reissue (and I typically don't like the printed circuit board reissues) and it chops heads off. Very rock and roll amp. That 1987x will sonically decapitate as well, I'm jealous!
 
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