How do the pros get the artist to do it your way.

  • Thread starter Thread starter darrin_h2000
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darrin_h2000

darrin_h2000

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I have a stubborn lady here in my studio that insists on playing the guitar track and the vocal at the same time. Im considering having her redo the two tracks alone by telling her she needs to double them to sound fuller.

Im sure Im not the only one to run into this situation. If she does it without bleeding from the other track the results will be so much better.

I need to use diplomacy here, anyone?
 
Tell her like it is... You have to do it seperate to have more control on the tracks. No bleeding...

And tell her that it's done this way too in pro studio's. That she will be able to hear her guitars while singing too, etc... Just act like you're the pro, and you know it better. You always have to do that. You're the one that knows. Use big words, impress her. Just make her believe that you have alot more knowledge and it's completely above her head, so she doesn't even have the guts to disagree with you anymore. :cool:
 
Unless it would take a long time, I usually let the talent try it their way... they usually learn pretty quickly why it won't work.........!
 
It depends on why she doesn't want to track separately. If she can't play guitar without singing or vice versa, then make the best recording you can. You will not be able to teach her a new trick in a quick enough time. I would politely say to her why recording separately will lead to a better sounding recording and have her try it just once. If it's a struggle then I wouldn't force the issue and just make the best of it.

The bottom line is, the customer is paying you. If she refuses to do it your way - even though it's the better way - you only have two choices: 1) do it her way and make the best of it or 2) refuse to do it her way and let her find someone else to record her.

Just an aside, bleed is not necessarily a bad thing. The important thing is the final product, not how you get there.
 
What's the big deal? Plenty of great albums have been made with a lot of mic bleed.

Take it as an engineering challenge for you and dont make it a performance challenge for the artist.
 
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I had her double the vocals and guitar seperately and had her do them twice and I got rid of the original tracks and she has doubled vocal for the spots where that is appropriate.

She could nail it fine using the original tracks as scratch tracks.

Shes a very tallented 19 year old version of jewel, with the look too. She has had 3 other records previously and she did them that way, but this effort by far sounds better than those others.

Im kind of having trouble with her wanting to sing into the capsule instead of just under, and I have to blame the other studios for allowing It.
 
darrin_h2000 said:

Im kind of having trouble with her wanting to sing into the capsule instead of just under, and I have to blame the other studios for allowing It.

dummy mic technic?
 
Sorry to chime in so late on this one but keep in mind Billy Joel always sings and plays his piano in the same take. He says he just can't get the feel between words and music if he tries to do them seperate. His records don't sound too bad either. Just my $.02
 
I dont know, shes my wifes friend so Im out of the running. Ill try to post a pic.
 
c7sus said:
Have you tried telling her she's gonna burn in hell if she can't see it your way.:D

Nothing pisses off Jesus like people who play and sing at the same time while recording. The only thing he hates more are guitarists who hum while playing.
 
I'm coming in kinda late in this discussion - and I'm glad that darrin got his takes - but I wanted to comment on on the concept of making the artist record a certain way.

While I appreciate the perceived value of seperate tracks and no bleed - what is of equal and arguably more importance is the performance. An engineer's job is to capture a performance and a producer's job is to get the best performance - part of those functions are to make the artist as comfortable as possible.

If the lady feels she needs to play and sing at the same time to give the most real and inspired performance, then that is how she should be recorded. You can explain why there are benefits to tracking seperately - but she should not be forced to perform in an uncomfortable way. - nor should she be made to "feel guity" if she wants to perfrom how she feels best.

I've been in a couple of dozen studios on the performance side - and have seen too many engineers who gave little or no conern to the performer. As a performer I would try to politely explain why a certain mic position or whatever may compromise the performance (in particular on drumming sessions, I find engineers seem intent on putting mics or muffling in a position that make it all but impossible to play the drums). In some cases the engineer would listen and cooperate and in some cases they simply got an attitude. Being a professional I would play my parts to the best of my ability - but the mood/vibe of the session would be compromised - making for an unpleasant session - which has to present itself in the finished recording to some degree. .

As a studio operator - I make extra effort to make the artist comfortable, even if it is more work for me. - I find that the vibe is often worth the trade off for what ever recording quality I must give up.
 
zbert said:
Sorry to chime in so late on this one but keep in mind Billy Joel always sings and plays his piano in the same take. He says he just can't get the feel between words and music if he tries to do them seperate. His records don't sound too bad either. Just my $.02

Im sure there are exceptions to my theory, but I think this is a load of horseshit. I have heard artists being quoted saying this stuff also... If we only really saw what goes on in the studio....

Unless you are low in the aptitude department, You should be able to sing a vocal line that you wrote while playing guitar, without playing... Same goes for piano... (Keep in mind I said there are exceptions to the theory... so, if you can't do it, don't get all offended)

It a matter of simple aptitude.. If you are talented enough to chew gum and walk, you must be able to walk without chewing gum... Ok that might not make sense, but I know that with me, I can sing all my lines solo and get the same "feel"... Yes, the lines that I wrote while sitting on the sofa with a guitar....

I can't believe how many big stars glorify their working methods... I doubt Billy Joel sings and plays all at once on all the songs....It's funny cause, I was also reading that the drummer of Def Leppard uses all pads, and an ACOUSTIC bass drum......Funny how when he aucitoned his bass drum off on Ebay, it came with 2 electronic triggers attached... Hmmmmmm. ;)

You might want to ignore this post... It was just a little rant...
 
Ive heard quite a few quotes by musicians who have revealed their ineptitude as recording engineers. My approach would be to do it her way. Then ask if you can do it a different way and let her pick which one she thinks is better. Fluff up the old ego and she might be more willing. Or research her favorite artist and tell her how that was recorded.


SoMm
 
C7sus; dont put too much stock in the thread from the cave this weekend, I was just having fun in there.

Thanks for the Posts, and If they dont work, Ill go with C7s suggestion.

I wont be able to post any pics untill I get her permission, I dont want to encourage any more stalkings.
 
Or.........
You could just B*TCH-SLAP her a couple of times in da' mouth. Then, tell her to SHUT-THE-F*CK-UP, and do it your way. :D
 
Poor poor engineers! Once again, rather than work on improving our recording techniques, it makes much more sense if we just prevent artists from recording in a way that allows them to be the most creative and emotionally intense.

I think we are only just scratching the surface here. I think for orchestral recordings, we should have each violin, viola, cello, oboe, bassoon, etc. play their parts one at a time. And if they don't like it, then, (how did he put it? oh yeah...) bitch slap them a few times until they see our logic. It may not sound much like an orchestra when we're done, but at least we won't have to worry about bleeding. Except for the bloody mess from all the bitch slapping.

And drummers? Let them record the kick on one pass, the snare on another, the toms on another, cymbals on another, etc. It will surely be a much better sound, and if they don't like playing that way, then I guess they're not real pros. Any real engineer should be able to convince them this way is the best! Just use diplomacy and a lot of free drugs.

Making recordings of bands in live performance/concert settings? Forget it! It just can't be done! Think of all the bleed! How could you ever get enough isolation...! Who could even consider such a horrid idea.

Spontaneous interaction? Feeding off of live energy? Creative interplay? Sounds like a bunch of Commie bullcrap to me!!


Maybe we could even get guitarists to play on only one string at a time while muting the rest, so we don't get any of that annoying resonance or sympathetic vibrations. After all, we can always use a nice digital reverb plug-in later if we want any ambience.

Yeah, THAT'S the ticket!!!!!





:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
 
littledog said:
.....(how did he put it? oh yeah...) bitch slap them a few times until they see our logic....

littledog,


I'm sure you understand.......That I was just being facetious.
:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :D :D :D :D .......... ;)
 
Layers, Ogre's have layers, onions have layers get it. Not everybody likes onions, but cakes..cakes have layers. Parfaits, parfaits have layers, everbody loves parfaits.

LOL@LD


SoMm
 
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