how do i record these instruments

[Nick The Man]

where do you place a mic on a cello?

and what about a clarinet .....does the just go at the end of it where the air comes out?

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

With both of them some experimentation may be in order, but the textbook techniques say the following as a jump-off point:

Cello: mic 10-45 degrees off-center to the side of the instrumet opposite of the player at a distance of about 2 feet (give or take) with the microphone pointed at the sound holes. However, in a decent room, micing the cello from outside it's near field (~5-6 feet) is often a good alternative.

Clarinet: While most of the sound actually comes out of the fingerholes, as the frequency increases, the amount of the sound coming out of the front bell increases. Therefore a comprimise position that splits the difference is recommended; mic about 6" to a foot above the instrument pointing down towards the point of the clarinet halfway between the bottom fingerhole and the bell.

G.

 

[Ethan Winer]

Nick,

> where do you place a mic on a cello? <

I play the cello and record myself and others all the time. For classical music I put a pair of mikes (XY stereo) 3 to 4 feet in front of the instrument, a little above and pointing down. However, this works only if you have a large room that sounds good. If you have nearby walls, or the ceiling is low, and there's no acoustic treatment, you'll need to put the mike(s) closer to avoid that hollow off-mike sound.

> and what about a clarinet <

Same as above. The closer you put the mike to an acoustic instrument, the more "affected" the sound will be because it picks up only part of the frequency range. Most acoustic instruments radiate different frequencies in different directions. So you have to be farther away to get them all.

--Ethan

 

[funkydrummer]

here's a link to a cream website. the third picture down shows jack bruce in the studio recording the cello.

 

[TimOBrien]

It's very common on a soprano sax to mic >both< the bell and the keys at the middle of the instrument, then mix the two together.

It might be something to try with the clarinet.

 

[bennychico11]

as the frequency increases, the amount of the sound coming out of the front bell increases.

actually, i would say it's the other way around. as the frequency DEcreases, the more sound that comes out of the bell. Place the clarinet bell on a bed and play into the bed. The higher up you are, the more easier it is to play. Cover all the holes and play a low E and the air is forced to go out the bell...which you'll find very hard to play if the bell is covered. The saxophone is similar in this respect. In fact, a trick on the tenor saxophone to play a low A (normally only possible on a Bari sax) is to stick your foot in it....or many people will just push the bell up against the side of their thigh.

Anyway...clarinet, I'd mic the fingers. Probably at a slight angle towards the middle of the clarinet....small condenser. I've seen the Shure KSM137 used a lot. You'll get a lot of key movement probably, which might or might not be desirable. If not, then maybe move it back to capture more of the entire sound.

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

actually, i would say it's the other way around. as the frequency DEcreases, the more sound that comes out of the bell. Place the clarinet bell on a bed and play into the bed. The higher up you are, the more easier it is to play. Cover all the holes and play a low E and the air is forced to go out the bell...which you'll find very hard to play if the bell is covered. The saxophone is similar in this respect. In fact, a trick on the tenor saxophone to play a low A (normally only possible on a Bari sax) is to stick your foot in it....or many people will just push the bell up against the side of their thigh.7

Intuitively I would have agreed with you Benny, but for even a slightly different reason in addition to your demonstration. I might have reasoned that the finger holes would be less conducive to lower frequency dispersion because of their smaller size and that the bell would be the source of most of the bass sounds.

But I'm not sure that in reality there is necessarily a direct proportion between the amount of air coming out of the bell and the amount of sound energy coming out of it, or between the size of the finger holes relative to the size fo the bell. I'm thinking that more of the high freq stuff might be coming out of the front of the clarinet both because the lower freqs resonate the body of the clarinet more and they will disperse on a tangent better, whereas the high freqs will tend to be more directional and tend to tunnel out the front of the clarinet.

But I'm really just guessing as to the reason. I have gotten the "mic between the holes and the bell" and the thing about the higher freqs coming from the bell from a couple of different printed sources. Only one of thise sources are near me at the moment, but here's the passage from "Modern Recording Techniques (4th Edition)" on clarinet:

"The sound of this reeded woodwind radiates almost exclusively from the finger holes at frequencies between 800Hz and 3kHz; however, as the pitch rises, more of the sound eminates from the bell. Often the best mic placement occurs when the pickup is aimed toward the lower finger holes at a distance of 6" to 1'."

I honestly could not tell you first-hand which is true, I have not solo recorded a clarinet myself yet, to be honest. I can only go by what the textbooks have been saying on this one. It's possible they could have gotten it reversed, I suppose.

But the key I think isn't which is which so much as the idea that you want to mic to get some of both fingerholes and bell while keeping the key clacking minimized. Hence the "bottom of the instrument" targeting.

G.

 

[bennychico11]

interesting quote.
and i would agree that toward the bell would give you less key noise.

The way i see it, though, is when the musician blows air through the horn it goes in a straight line and will escape through the closest holes it can. And where the air goes is where the sound goes. I think the inventor of the clarinet put the higher notes up on the higher end of the instrument because they found that the shorter the distance the air traveled, the higher the pitch it was (Which I guess can be true for any instrument...ie. the trombone). We also know this is true for frequencies in general. The higher the frequency, the less distance is need to create a full cycle. The lower the frequency...the more distance is needed (and in turn, the more space needed of the clarinet to resonate the lower frequency...which is why you can't create the lower notes with only half the clarinet).

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

And where the air goes is where the sound goes.

Your analysis of the distance of the finger hole being proportional to the wavelengh (and therefore inversely proportional to the frequency) is correct. As such, the lower sound holes control the longer wavelength/lower frequency sounds. That in and of itself, though, is not an indicator of where the sound radiates from. The lowest holes control the lowest notes, but the notes thenselves are created by the resonance of the air and the instrument along the length of the instrument from the reed down to the fingered hole.

It's a similar effect to the fingering of a guitar string; the further the distance one places their fingers down the neck, the lower the frequency at whcih the string vibrtes. But where the finger is located is not where the majority of the sound is actually coming from.

With many, if not most wind instruments, the air movement and path helps create the sound, but is not the sound itself. The wind is not the main "carrier" of the sound. If it were, putting a fan in front of the player would blow the sound away from the microphone.

Look, for a real example, at the clarinet's little brother, the flute. The majority of the sound does not carry with the breath across the mouth hole or along the radius of the flute where the rest of the air travels. Nor does it come out in the direction of the finger holes, but rather it mostly radiates out tangential to the length of the flute body, angling further to the right of the player's LOS as the frequency increases. In that case, the radiation pattern of the instrument bears no resemblence whatsoever to the direction of air travel in and around the instrument.

G.

 

[Nick The Man]

oh jeez thank you everyone for all the responses .... i tottaly forgot i made this thread and i havent looked at it until right now



thank you everyone for the info