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daltyboy
New member
i know how to compress after you have recorded but how do i limit and then compress?
TexRoadkill
Audio Bum
limiting is just compression with an extremely high ratio, usually about 10:1 or greater.
If you want a brickwall limiter (nothing gets through) set the attack to the fastest possible setting and the ratio to the highest possible setting.
If you want a brickwall limiter (nothing gets through) set the attack to the fastest possible setting and the ratio to the highest possible setting.
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daltyboy
New member
so what do i do? do i wanna set the compressor to this ratio and then record through the compressor at this ratio?
then when its all recorded send the signal through the compressor again at a different ratio.
then when its all recorded send the signal through the compressor again at a different ratio.
TexRoadkill
Audio Bum
that's pretty much it. Why do you need to limit and compress?
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wascal
New member
a little light limiting reduces signal peaks does it not?
limiting does not raise the noise floor does it?
a little light limiting before compression can therefore reduce the dynamic range somewhat without adding noise.
if the dynamic range is already reduce a little then you can get your hotter signal with less compression. you do want a hotter signal dont you?
YOU DO THIS TO YOUR SIGNAL BEFORE IT GOES INTO THE RECORDER.
so you either get 2 single channel compressors or a single 2 channel compressor.
you connect 2 compressors in series!
the first one is set for light limiting.
the second one is set for light compression.
you dont have to do this nobody is trying to force you.
limiting does not raise the noise floor does it?
a little light limiting before compression can therefore reduce the dynamic range somewhat without adding noise.
if the dynamic range is already reduce a little then you can get your hotter signal with less compression. you do want a hotter signal dont you?
YOU DO THIS TO YOUR SIGNAL BEFORE IT GOES INTO THE RECORDER.
so you either get 2 single channel compressors or a single 2 channel compressor.
you connect 2 compressors in series!
the first one is set for light limiting.
the second one is set for light compression.
you dont have to do this nobody is trying to force you.
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daltyboy
New member
I want to limit and compress so i can get a more professional recording by getting a hotter signal.
can the RNC $175 compressor do all this? is it gonna work good or be half ass.
can the RNC $175 compressor do all this? is it gonna work good or be half ass.
TexRoadkill
Audio Bum
You guys are a little misguided there.
True a little limiting or compression going to tape does raise the RMS and therefore give you more distance from the format noise floor but it will also raise the noise floor of the mic, preamp and ambient room noise. It's a matter of choosing between 2 lesser evils and would depend on the situation.
If you are using casette or 16bit there may be some advantage to that but not really in 24bit where the noise floor is too low to really worry about.
There are always trade-offs and no such thing as a fee lunch.
True a little limiting or compression going to tape does raise the RMS and therefore give you more distance from the format noise floor but it will also raise the noise floor of the mic, preamp and ambient room noise. It's a matter of choosing between 2 lesser evils and would depend on the situation.
If you are using casette or 16bit there may be some advantage to that but not really in 24bit where the noise floor is too low to really worry about.
There are always trade-offs and no such thing as a fee lunch.
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daltyboy
New member
thanx for your replies guys and i dont want to sound annonying
but i just got alot of questions about this,
I got a 1680 (24bit) so what should i do, Im concerned about compression and "squishing" the signal for the overall volume gain.
how should i go about this?
limit?
just compress?
both?
please be specific to,im new to compression.
but i just got alot of questions about this,
I got a 1680 (24bit) so what should i do, Im concerned about compression and "squishing" the signal for the overall volume gain.
how should i go about this?
limit?
just compress?
both?
please be specific to,im new to compression.
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daltyboy
New member
does anyone know?
M
mstudio1224@aol.com
New member
Compressor/Limiter for Sale
Behringer Composer 2100 Compressor/Limiter 2 channel processor $80
Behringer Composer 2100 Compressor/Limiter 2 channel processor $80
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wascal
New member
"we" are misguided?
i think not.
there is a difference between compressing whilst still in the analog realm and waiting until youre in the digital realm. any effecting done in the digital realm adds noise and distortion too so dont try to scare "us".
a lot of ppls like analog compression better and "we" recommend doing it before going in for obvious reasons. or maybe not obvious?
a lot of ppls like compressing in stages rather than all at once. in this case it is only logical to use a compressor before going in.
if you have to worry so much about noise then maybe you have unusual problems and dont know how to use your equpiment properly. noise is not a problem in my home studio.
i think not.
there is a difference between compressing whilst still in the analog realm and waiting until youre in the digital realm. any effecting done in the digital realm adds noise and distortion too so dont try to scare "us".
a lot of ppls like analog compression better and "we" recommend doing it before going in for obvious reasons. or maybe not obvious?
a lot of ppls like compressing in stages rather than all at once. in this case it is only logical to use a compressor before going in.
if you have to worry so much about noise then maybe you have unusual problems and dont know how to use your equpiment properly. noise is not a problem in my home studio.
TexRoadkill
Audio Bum
Well you wascal. I actually dont have a problem with noise so I dont worry about limiting before compression. The assumptions you made in your earlier post were misleading to people who may not be as experienced as yourself.
Daltyboy there is a lot of info on compression in these forums. www.digido.com has some good tutorials also.
Daltyboy there is a lot of info on compression in these forums. www.digido.com has some good tutorials also.
TexRoadkill
Audio Bum
Actually I was giving wascal some undue respect.
Yes that is it's purpose.
Of course it does. Limiting is no different than compression in that respect and from a 'colorization' standpoint limiting is much harsher on the original tone than compression.
This is a completely false assumption. See above.
I'm not trying to scare anyone just educate. In general digital limiting is preferred because of it's look ahead ability. But this adds latency and is better done during mix or mastering. Yes, analog compression is preferred by many.
I'm not sure who the 'we' is that you keep referring to but it is obviously not anybody who knows what they are doing. If somebody is already recording with 24bit digital than SNR is not an issue and dynamics processing while tracking is not needed.
If somebody is using analog then some slight limiting or compression before hitting tape may be usefull. But any type of dynamics processing will color the sound and reduce the SNR in that segment of the audio chain preceding the processing so it should be used wisely.
Yes that is it's purpose.
Of course it does. Limiting is no different than compression in that respect and from a 'colorization' standpoint limiting is much harsher on the original tone than compression.
This is a completely false assumption. See above.
I'm not trying to scare anyone just educate. In general digital limiting is preferred because of it's look ahead ability. But this adds latency and is better done during mix or mastering. Yes, analog compression is preferred by many.
I'm not sure who the 'we' is that you keep referring to but it is obviously not anybody who knows what they are doing. If somebody is already recording with 24bit digital than SNR is not an issue and dynamics processing while tracking is not needed.
If somebody is using analog then some slight limiting or compression before hitting tape may be usefull. But any type of dynamics processing will color the sound and reduce the SNR in that segment of the audio chain preceding the processing so it should be used wisely.
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volltreffer
Imply depressed
High!
Here's a nice link to some articles on compression and limiting:
http://www.studiocovers.com/articles3.htm
High Tex!
I think you're completely right (though YOU know it): ANY compression/limiting will raise the sound-noise-ratio. That's an inevitable side-effect... I think you're right here also: when it comes to recording on 24bit machines, tracking compression should not be necessary. But on 16bitters, IMO, it is almost a must.
On my vs880 with 16bit converters, I often use slight compression (2:1) and a brickwall limiter when recording 'important' tracks (vox...) All those guys on the 'inferior' machines should not be afraid of compression and limiting while tracking. IMO it is more important to try a lot. Only then you'll know how to achieve a result with dynamics when you need it. I heard some songs from guys who always stated that compression artefacts are spoiling every sound so they don't use compression anymore. The songs were lacking ANY power! Why? Because these guys hear something that 'compression colours your sound' and that 'when properly recorded, you don't need EQ', so they don't use dynamics and EQ and their sound is shit. Perhaps they've tried once to EQ, and the sound was worse and so they state no compression, no EQ... I may not be that experienced as an audio engineer, but I am as control engineer, and IMO one basic property of any engineer should be experience in what input (i.e. compression setting) will lead to what result...
As long as the limiter limits for VERY short time (1-2 samples), you'll not hear it (I don't hear even longer periods on my voice, but I have a quite 'distorted' sounding voice...). But I'm not sure whether it is necessary anyway, as the VS converters seem to limit already in their digital distortion ( so you don't have a wrap-around effect that REALLY gives bad sound). But it makes me feel better, anyway, and the limit led is never lit, so why not use it, if I feel better when tracking...
Ciao
Axel
Here's a nice link to some articles on compression and limiting:
http://www.studiocovers.com/articles3.htm
High Tex!
I think you're completely right (though YOU know it): ANY compression/limiting will raise the sound-noise-ratio. That's an inevitable side-effect... I think you're right here also: when it comes to recording on 24bit machines, tracking compression should not be necessary. But on 16bitters, IMO, it is almost a must.
On my vs880 with 16bit converters, I often use slight compression (2:1) and a brickwall limiter when recording 'important' tracks (vox...) All those guys on the 'inferior' machines should not be afraid of compression and limiting while tracking. IMO it is more important to try a lot. Only then you'll know how to achieve a result with dynamics when you need it. I heard some songs from guys who always stated that compression artefacts are spoiling every sound so they don't use compression anymore. The songs were lacking ANY power! Why? Because these guys hear something that 'compression colours your sound' and that 'when properly recorded, you don't need EQ', so they don't use dynamics and EQ and their sound is shit. Perhaps they've tried once to EQ, and the sound was worse and so they state no compression, no EQ... I may not be that experienced as an audio engineer, but I am as control engineer, and IMO one basic property of any engineer should be experience in what input (i.e. compression setting) will lead to what result...
As long as the limiter limits for VERY short time (1-2 samples), you'll not hear it (I don't hear even longer periods on my voice, but I have a quite 'distorted' sounding voice...). But I'm not sure whether it is necessary anyway, as the VS converters seem to limit already in their digital distortion ( so you don't have a wrap-around effect that REALLY gives bad sound). But it makes me feel better, anyway, and the limit led is never lit, so why not use it, if I feel better when tracking...
Ciao
Axel
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wascal
New member
trollveffer is wrong because s/he says that any compression/limiting will raise what s/he quaintly calls the "sound-noise-ratio" when actually since they reduce the signal peaks then obviously this reduces the s/n ratio.
tex threadkill is wrong because limiting does not raise the noise floor. you do that yourself when you raise the overall levels to take advantage of the increase in headroom.
compressors use a secondary gain stage which allows them to be used a "sustainers". anyone who has ever used a compressor on a noisy guitar signal knows that compressors raise the noise floor on the decay of notes. when used as limiters this will not occur.
tex threadkill is wrong because limiting does not raise the noise floor. you do that yourself when you raise the overall levels to take advantage of the increase in headroom.
compressors use a secondary gain stage which allows them to be used a "sustainers". anyone who has ever used a compressor on a noisy guitar signal knows that compressors raise the noise floor on the decay of notes. when used as limiters this will not occur.
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wascal
New member
ha ha ha i gave tex threadkill entirely too much credit!
at first i thought he was human!
now i know he is a chimp!
at first i thought he was human!
now i know he is a chimp!
TexRoadkill
Audio Bum
I gotta give you some credit Wascal. You are the most stubbornly ignorant person I have seen on these forums in quite some time and we get a lot of dumbasses in here.
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volltreffer
Imply depressed
High wascal!
Why then do you funny person use a limiter? Usually you do this to be able to record/mix louder or so what... But if you do, the noise will also be louder...
I'm really trying to be polite, as I don't want this to end up in a flame war like some other posts did. If you believe what you believe do so, try to explain your thoughts or leave it... I just tried to be helpful.
Ciao,
Axel
Why then do you funny person use a limiter? Usually you do this to be able to record/mix louder or so what... But if you do, the noise will also be louder...
I'm really trying to be polite, as I don't want this to end up in a flame war like some other posts did. If you believe what you believe do so, try to explain your thoughts or leave it... I just tried to be helpful.
Ciao,
Axel
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wascal
New member
i have proven you both wrong logically and all you can do is pretend its not so.
i may not always be right but it cant be denied that i have proven you both wrong.
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.
tex threadkill's mother was obviously a chimp suffering from syphillis when she pooped him out. he is now a piece of living shit!
why do i use a limiter you ask trollveffer? well why do companies make limiters?
noise is not a problem for me.
i would be very surprised if ether of you dolts could make a pleasant recording. you probably both use drum loops and sequencers!
i may not always be right but it cant be denied that i have proven you both wrong.
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.
tex threadkill's mother was obviously a chimp suffering from syphillis when she pooped him out. he is now a piece of living shit!
why do i use a limiter you ask trollveffer? well why do companies make limiters?
noise is not a problem for me.
i would be very surprised if ether of you dolts could make a pleasant recording. you probably both use drum loops and sequencers!
TexRoadkill
Audio Bum
You have yet to prove anything but your own ignorance and lack of class. I can hear better insults from my grandmother so you'll have to try a little harder than that if you want to piss me off.
Here is some rough mixes of a current project I am doing with a singer/songwriter http://www.nowhereradio.com/texroadkill/singles
Let's hear your stuff bigshot.
Here is some rough mixes of a current project I am doing with a singer/songwriter http://www.nowhereradio.com/texroadkill/singles
Let's hear your stuff bigshot.