How do I improve mic'ing my guitar amp?

  • Thread starter Thread starter hemmick reef
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hemmick reef

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I am having trouble getting a decent rhythm guitar sound from my amp and need some help.
I am using an SM57 pointing at the center of the amp and touching the cloth.
The sound is thin and uninspiring and adding chorus & reverb & eq does not seem to help very much.
How loud should the amp be when recording like this and are there any points I should follow?
Thanks
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Equipment List:

Carillon Computer 2.8P4 1gig ram
Edirol DA2496 8ins/8outs soundcard
Alesis M1 Active Mk2 monitors
Groove Tubes 'The Brick' preamp
Groove Tubes GT67 valve microphone
SM57 microphone
Rickenbacker 4003 Bass
Marshall bass 100 watt transistor combo
Yamaha AES500
Laney VC15-110 valve combo
Edirol midi controller keyboard

Uad-1 x 1
Powercore unplugged + VSS3 reverb

Cubase SX2
Korg Legacy Collection (softsynth)
Sample Tank (softsynth)
FM7 (softsynth)
EZDrummer (softsynth)
 
Try micing with both your sm-57 and your GT67. Adjust positioning to taste.

Really, it will make a huge difference.
 
Which mic through my 'Brick' pre though as the other mic will have to go through my edirol preamp?
Can't aford another at the moment :(

What's the normal positioning for the mics?
 
hemmick reef said:
I am having trouble getting a decent rhythm guitar sound from my amp and need some help.
I am using an SM57 pointing at the center of the amp and touching the cloth.
The sound is thin and uninspiring and adding chorus & reverb & eq does not seem to help very much.
How loud should the amp be when recording like this and are there any points I should follow?
Thanks
-------------------------------------------------------------
Equipment List:

Carillon Computer 2.8P4 1gig ram
Edirol DA2496 8ins/8outs soundcard
Alesis M1 Active Mk2 monitors
Groove Tubes 'The Brick' preamp
Groove Tubes GT67 valve microphone
SM57 microphone
Rickenbacker 4003 Bass
Marshall bass 100 watt transistor combo
Yamaha AES500
Laney VC15-110 valve combo
Edirol midi controller keyboard

Uad-1 x 1
Powercore unplugged + VSS3 reverb

Cubase SX2
Korg Legacy Collection (softsynth)
Sample Tank (softsynth)
FM7 (softsynth)
EZDrummer (softsynth)
Click to expand...

Get the amp cabinet off the floor. Use 1 ear and act like a mic. Move around and listen to the sound. If you like the sound, put the mic there. Many times, there is no place that has the sound you want. If that is true, then use a different amp, pedel, guitar etc. Don't put the mic to the cloth. Put about 2" from it. You will get a better sound if you back off on the distortion (if you are after distorted guitars). Don't try to get a super heavy sound like some records as they double, triple etc. guitars. You are after a good sound with detail. More distortion kills the detail and hogs the available space for the total guitar sound. Doubling shitty guitar sounds only makes things worse.
 
Assuming you have a good guitar with good pickups, a good amp and good speakers or cab.......

Theres alot of general information out there that will get you generally screwed.

I have read many tips that just said point the mic directly at the speaker cone about an inch away or nearly touching the grill.

Sometimes its hit and miss but most of the time it ends up sounding like fizzle.

You are generally supposed to use your ear only to find the sweet spot of a guitar cab. 1 speaker is typically louder than the other in a 4x12 etc.

But what you really want is to take the mic and start somewhere just off the edge of the cone. You will then want to move the mic around while listening through headphones until you find what sounds closest to the amps natural playing sound. You might even angle the mic a little inward from the outside edge to capture a little of the highs coming strait off the middle of the cone.

You can still start an inch away from the grill and move back a little if needed but mainly search around for the best sound by mic placement.

Try recording it and play it back.

I read another lecture on recording distorted guitars and in summary it said that you should be able to get the guitarists normal tone without turning down gain, bass, or any other adjustments. (Unless its completely obvious the guitarist had it so whacked from the start that it truly didnt sound good)

But once the tone is set, your supposed to be able to turn the amp up until the speaker starts excursion and the cabinets begins to get involved. Your over all volume level is recommended to be a balance of the two, speaker envolvement and cabinet envolvement.

I know when I am kranked up I can sense when the cab begins to vibrate more and resonate alot of low end and I can see the speaker move. So I assume thats what the statement is refering to.

Make sure you are familiar with gain staging. You want headroom for the guitars and dont want clipping when adjusting the trim knob and volume lever.

Track the guitars around -10 to -6 but no more than -4 db at the highest peak and you will probably be safe.

You can record a single guitar track panned Hard Left and another separate guitar track panned hard right and come out fine for rythm.

Another thicker approach as mentioned is to Pan them Hard Left, Record another guitar and Pan hard left on top of the first and you will have a thick sound. Making sure you play as clean as possible to match the first take.

Repeat on the Right side.

Pan leads up the middle and harmonies according to taste.

Most of your good sounding guitars will need very little EQ after tracking if its done right from the start.

Use the crap in equals crap out theory.

Crap in then cleaned up equals Polished crap out.

Find a chart to show guitar frequencies to make sure if you do adjust them you know what ones can help or hurt your sound.

Hope some of that helps.....
 
Track the guitars around -10 to -6 but no more than -4 db at the highest peak and you will probably be safe.
Click to expand...

...minus about 12-16db on your digital meters
 
Thanks everyone.

I think I need to listen to what's happening rather than just presume on theory. I will spend some time experimenting and listening for the sweet spot which sounds like it can move from setting to setting.

Just the advice I was looking for :)
 
One thing I've learned that makes a difference that I've never seen posted. While you are positioning the mic..........

























































"Don't stand right in front of the gad damn thing!"


Get the hell off to the side. You're acting like a gobo and blocking some of the reflected sound.
 
Yeah, your body makes a nice sponge for the high frequencies....
 
hemmick reef said:
I think I need to listen to what's happening rather than just presume on theory.
Click to expand...
Ding ding ding ding!!! That is THE answer...to just about every question ever posted on this board! :)

Here's another listening trick that I heard from someone else a long time ago and often works well:

Unplug or turn the volume off of your guitar (this is VERY important for health reasons soon self-evident.) Turn up the volume on your amp until the electronic noise floor becomes readily eveident. Get your ear close up to the amp and move it around until you find the spot where the higher firequencies of the noise sound the "best" - typically meaning most audible without sounding shrill. Place you mic there.

Then use a 9mm SIG loaded with hollow points to shoot in the belly whatever joker thought it would actually be funny to plug in/turn up the guitar while you had your ear up to the cabinet.

G.
 
This is all just way over-analyzing things here.


What one needs to understand is that, regardless of what you might think you're hearing out of your amp ... what sounds good to you in the room and what sounds good on tape (disk) are very often two completely different things, so you need to learn to adapt.

It's a lot like the idea behind learning your monitors. When someone says you need to "learn your monitors," they simply mean that you need to learn how mixes that you're listening to on your system will ultimately translate when played back on other systems, and adapt / translate accordingly.

It's no different with amps. They all sound different once they're actually recorded. And certain types of amps will tend to record better than others; an unfortunate reality that is sometimes a little difficult to swallow.

.
 
two threads that have helped me a great deal:

Harvey Mic Thread... A lot of reading in there including a great section on micing guitar cabs.
https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=27030

Slipperman Thread... I think he records guitars which are much more aggressive than what I do, but the thread is loaded with great info.
http://marsh.prosoundweb.com/index.php/t/287/?SQ=a0c1bd82bcb41a99485c076a72faf428

I would also suggest doing some reading and listening at womb.mixerman.com

In the slipperman radio section you can hear raw tracks and listen as they go from mic to mix on distorted guitars. That place is loaded with great people, positive threads and useful information.
 
Slipperman definately makes alot of great points if you can follow him through all of his slang and verbage.

Helpful and entertaining.
 
Thanks all.

I have been experimenting with recording in my 'home studio' 3x2m room (rather small), and just outside the room on the upstairs landing.

At other times I have just played downstairs in the living room (not recording), and thought wow the amp sounds good today, or I should say sounds good in here! I need to get that sound closer to my computer.
 
You should import a commercial song into your session that you like the tone of the guitars. Then try and get as close to it as you can. The if its too similar then you can tweak the amp slightly to taste.

Eck
 
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