How Do I Get Those Massive Guitars?!?!

[LoGoTH]

Ok, i'm somewhat of a newbie. I've been recording for about a year now and have done several demos for bands in my area. I get everything to sound pretty good, but the main problem im having right now is how to get that massive wall of guitars sound. I have a SM57, and a Studio Projects C1 that run through a Behringer 2 Channel Tube Mic Pre into two Presonus COMP16 compressors into my Presonus Firepod. As far as amps go I use a Behringer V Amp. Any suggestions or know hows?

 

[7string]

Ok, i'm somewhat of a newbie. I've been recording for about a year now and have done several demos for bands in my area. I get everything to sound pretty good, but the main problem im having right now is how to get that massive wall of guitars sound. I have a SM57, and a Studio Projects C1 that run through a Behringer 2 Channel Tube Mic Pre into two Presonus COMP16 compressors into my Presonus Firepod. As far as amps go I use a Behringer V Amp. Any suggestions or know hows?

That 'massive wall of guitars' is just that, a massive wall of guitars. That sound is basically accomplished by recording guitar tracks over and over and over sometimes up to twenty or more times and blending them all together. You won't get the same effect by taking just one track, duping it and moving it forward or backwards a touch to make it sound like a separate track. If you want the wall of guitars sound, then do it right and don't try to find a shortcut. Have the guitarist(s) do take after take after take until you get the sound you are looking for. Some guitarists might be able to do it 4 takes, some might take 8 or whatever. Just tell them that is the only way to get it like the pro's do.

 

[Cloneboy Studio]

Assuming you can play, write a "massive" sounding guitar part, know how to dial in a "massive" sound on your rig, a massive sounding guitar is the result of:

1.) Expensive amplifiers, usually tube. Think Bogner Uberschall, VHT Pitbull, and other pricey boutique amps.

2.) Expensive, well set up guitars, often vintage. Definately not the lame Schecters they sell at Guitar Center.

3.) Yeah you can get an okay tone with an SM57, but the big dogs are rolling with expensive mics like the Royer R121's, Neumann U87's and the like to record guitars. Usually more than one mic and in an appropriate recording space; i.e. your room doesn't suck.

4.) Expensive preamps. I'm talking at least UA 2108's, but along the lines of Vintech 473's, Neve 1072/1073 series, Universal Audio 2610's.

5.) Lots and lots of *PERFECT* takes piled on top of each other. There are albums that have 3 takes left, 3 takes right and 3 takes center. Yeah, it can take a long time to get right.

6.) Really good mix that makes the guitars sound heavy.

7.) Really good master that continues to accomplish the above.

 

[aaroncomp]

I agree with Cloneboy's #5 and 6, and for further refining, yes, 7. #5 is very important. Don't worry about his 1-4.

 

[LoGoTH]

Thanks, i appreciate the help. one more question tho, i sometimes record some guitarists that are not so good. should i be worried about them being able to double track to perfection?

 

[aaroncomp]

Thanks, i appreciate the help. one more question tho, i sometimes record some guitarists that are not so good. should i be worried about them being able to double track to perfection?

Oh yeah. Definately. PATIENCE must be your new, best asset. Even players that are "good" will find that entering the world of recording is a very humbling experience - all mistakes show, especially with timing issues.

 

[Beck]

Ok, i'm somewhat of a newbie. I've been recording for about a year now and have done several demos for bands in my area. I get everything to sound pretty good, but the main problem im having right now is how to get that massive wall of guitars sound. I have a SM57, and a Studio Projects C1 that run through a Behringer 2 Channel Tube Mic Pre into two Presonus COMP16 compressors into my Presonus Firepod. As far as amps go I use a Behringer V Amp. Any suggestions or know hows?

Massive guitar can mean various things. I assume you're talking about thick, spacious leads and/or rhythm.

Regardless of available equipment, big Guitars = Creating the illusion of depth, and chorusing or doubling for width.

You can do this with mics if you have a good room or with a digital or analog delay processor if you don’t.

The simplest way is to close mic the guitar amp and put a second mic out into the room to catch the early reflection. You can do the same thing by close miking the amp and using a short delay setting on a processor.

Repeat this twice, having the guitarist play the part again.

Now hard pan the results to opposite sides. This gives the listener the feeling of being surrounded with sound by creating wide (left/right) space and deep (front-to-back) space.

A single controlled delay is more effective than a dense reverb for this effect. Many would agree that Tom Scholz of Boston and Rockman fame is the father of huge, spacious guitar. He used no reverb at all, just delay and layering. And for big spacious acoustic he used cheap, Yamaha imports (instruments not too highly regarded at the time).

-Tim

 

[WzRd]

Just wanted to chime in on the in-expensive side.

Lots of takes really help - however rather than "hocking" everything for vintage guitars and Amps.

Try a Line 6 pod direct - you may be amazed.

Having said that I also use a VOX Valvestate, a Mesa Boogie Rocket 44, A 1971 Marshall 50 combo and a 65' strat - but that is because I am an old guy and bought them new.

 

[reshp1]

What they said. Try different guitars and amps for different takes. Try alternate voicings or positions for the same chord. Hell, mic up just the strings on the guitar. Basically the wall of guitars sound is accomplished by sounding like you have a 200 piece orchestra of guitar players all playing at once.

 

[up-fiddler]

5.) Lots and lots of *PERFECT* takes piled on top of each other. There are albums that have 3 takes left, 3 takes right and 3 takes center. Yeah, it can take a long time to get right.

This will do more than anything if you can only afford one of these suggestions. The only advantage we have is time. If it takes 11 days (No I'm not talking binary!) then so be it. It takes a lot of fun out of the process but it will give you better sound. Dave

 

[IronFlippy]

I don't recommend hard panning, but something like 66% L/R should work. Play around with the pan a bit. If it's just one guitar part, then you can pan harder and then center on a couple other tracks. But yea, record it over and over and over. Hint: this doesn't work with sloppy guitarists. They shouldn't be in the studio anyway.

 

[amra]

You can get huge guitar sounds with the V-AMP, IMO it is better at heavier guitar sounds than it is at anything else.

The key is you have to have huge guitar TONE at the guitar level, and/or nice tight layering, dead on, note for note. This is much more important than the equipment it goes through for demo work.

 

[up-fiddler]

I don't recommend hard panning, but something like 66% L/R should work. Play around with the pan a bit. If it's just one guitar part, then you can pan harder and then center on a couple other tracks. But yea, record it over and over and over. Hint: this doesn't work with sloppy guitarists. They shouldn't be in the studio anyway.

10 oclock - 2 oclock Just like driver training. DAve

 

[giraffe]

5.) Lots and lots of *PERFECT* takes piled on top of each other. There are albums that have 3 takes left, 3 takes right and 3 takes center. Yeah, it can take a long time to get right.

can't be stressed enough.

if the git player sucks, the track will get muddeled FAST after any more than 2 takes.

 

[soundchaser59]

can't be stressed enough.

if the git player sucks, the track will get muddeled FAST after any more than 2 takes.

Yeah, but if you are charging by the hour, then let the sucky guitarist worry about it......

 

[Ford Van]

Can I hear some audio examples that illustrates the suggestions from most of you guys?

 

[sweetpeee]

but the main problem im having right now is how to get that massive wall of guitars sound.

When I think of a massive guitar sound, I think of "Perry Mason" by Ozzy...particularly at the end when it fades out. Is this the type of sound you mean?

J.P.

 

[LeeRosario]

When it came to guitars, Jerry Finn (Blink 182, Alkaline Trio, Green Day) explains his approach to his guitar sound:


"When I approach guitar recording, I've found that using two or more amps at the same time gives me more to worth with. I used to use an SM57, but that's not really the case any more. Lately I use 2 mics to capture the performance. 1 high quality condenser just right of the cone for the highs and 1 ribbon just left of the cone for the lows.

After tracking, I mix and print the tracks with effects to keep the momentum in the session going. Using two or more amps gives me the chance to blend colors and textures better. Other engineers might wait until the mixing process to do that, but I find it better to just get it done in the moment."


To further supplement that, I've heard of a rare massive session involving not 1 not 2 not 3, not even 5 amps together. They used 12 amps together!

With 4 mics on each amp, I can imagine that was a massive (refering to the thread title) pain in the ass.

 

[treymonfauntre]

you guys should take a listen to this french indie band, the production absolutely enormous

 

[LeeRosario]

Guitar Tracking (Blink 182) amp/mic setup picture


For more go to:


Royer Blink 182 page


This will help you see a little of what goes on in commercial audio production.


However, one note.


You notice how he is using the round diffusors all around the amps and a carpet underneath?


The carpet is alright, but unless that floor is floated (which I think it is), you can expect problems with resonance caused by the amps resting on the floor. The carpet will only help absorb highs from 5k up. Especially if it's a wooden floor.

Wooden floors tend to sound warmer to a certain extent. They delay/bounce back sound slower than marble, concrete, and tile. So you want to consider that.

The baffles would help the bounce back, so that leads me to beleive they had the amps rather loud on tracking.


ps.

The chick at the bottom is not Jerry Finn..ahaha.