How to get a professional vocal sound? Which effect settings should I use?

[groucho]

(sigh) Ah well, I tried...

Change: Ill assume you're well-intentioned here and not pulling the leg of the newbies. My short answer is that you shouldn't be getting buzzing from your pre. Fix it at the source and you don't need noise reduction. You shouldn't be boosting 10 db of anything when eq-ing or you're dealing with a turd of a recording.

No, I don't record hip-hop (alhough I listen to quite a bit of it). Yes, I'm just a home recordist like everyone else here. No, I don't know everything - I'm learning every day. Yes, I listened to your stuff. I really dug some of your tunes - you've got plenty of talent. But your recording skills are way behind your skills on the mic. It sounds like the vox were done in a tin can.

I don't really want to get into a pissing contest here because this is pretty basic "recording 101" stuff that can easily be verified by any of the pros on this board (I'm *not* one of them). Or by doing a little reading and experimenting. So don't take my word for it, by all means.

Cheers,
Chris

 

[Change of POETS]

(sigh) Ah well, I tried...

Change: Ill assume you're well-intentioned here and not pulling the leg of the newbies. My short answer is that you shouldn't be getting buzzing from your pre. Fix it at the source and you don't need noise reduction. You shouldn't be boosting 10 db of anything when eq-ing or you're dealing with a turd of a recording.

As far s I know, EVERY soundcard has some electronic interferance on it, which needs to be eliminated. I choose to do so by Noise Reduction. It works best for me. Maybe if I had a $400.00 soundcard i wouldn't get that static I'm referring to, but alas, I don't have one. This mini-tutorial was wrote for the begining home hip-hop recorder. The kind of people who are using PC mic's and have no real studio equipment. That is why the suggestion of boosting the db is in there. With my studio Mic, I boost around 2-3 db on the high end, and actually cut my low end out some.

No, I don't record hip-hop (alhough I listen to quite a bit of it). Yes, I'm just a home recordist like everyone else here. No, I don't know everything - I'm learning every day. Yes, I listened to your stuff. I really dug some of your tunes - you've got plenty of talent. But your recording skills are way behind your skills on the mic. It sounds like the vox were done in a tin can.

I almost resent that. Someone who doesn't have experience in recording thisstyle of music, giving advice about it? I listen to alternative music, but I'd never assume I know the way to go about recording in that genre, because I have no experience there. You're the first person to ever say my vocal recordings sound bad. I'm suprised, and shocked. Not offended, just shocked. If you know of some way to make them sound better, please do tell. I guess the thousands of others who've told me otherwise don't have that acute ear you obtain

I don't really want to get into a pissing contest here because this is pretty basic "recording 101" stuff that can easily be verified by any of the pros on this board (I'm *not* one of them). Or by doing a little reading and experimenting. So don't take my word for it, by all means.

Cheers,
Chris

No need to get into a pissing contest at all bro. But seriously, any "pro" who tells you they aren't adjusting the vocal eq's of High Mid and Low, is flat-out lying to you. I've been recording for 5 years now, and have worked with hundreds of artists... all of which, had their vocals eq'd in their sessions.

BTW, I went to the website you posted. There's some good info there but, from a web-design perspective, navigation is sub-par. Are there any specific articles that you suggest we (I) read to improve the vocal recordings? Like you, I'm just an at-home recorder.

-Brian

 

[groucho]

As far s I know, EVERY soundcard has some electronic interferance on it, which needs to be eliminated. I choose to do so by Noise Reduction. It works best for me. Maybe if I had a $400.00 soundcard i wouldn't get that static I'm referring to, but alas, I don't have one. This mini-tutorial was wrote for the begining home hip-hop recorder. The kind of people who are using PC mic's and have no real studio equipment. That is why the suggestion of boosting the db is in there. With my studio Mic, I boost around 2-3 db on the high end, and actually cut my low end out some.

Hey Brian:

Okay, this is becoming a little clearer now. I'm assuming you have a fairly low-grade soundcard, and if that's the case: yeah, you're gonna get noise on there. No, every soundcard will not require you to use noise reduction. If you use the card that came with your computer, yeah, probably...

If you actually recorded the stuff on your site with a PC mic and a crappy soundcard, you're doing pretty damn well. But when giving advice out, you probably shouldn't assume everyone else is using such primitive equipment. For a few hundred bucks you can get a decent soundcard and a decent condensor mic - it's been my experience that, generally, most people on this board have at least that much in the way of gear.

I almost resent that. Someone who doesn't have experience in recording thisstyle of music, giving advice about it? I listen to alternative music, but I'd never assume I know the way to go about recording in that genre, because I have no experience there. You're the first person to ever say my vocal recordings sound bad. I'm suprised, and shocked. Not offended, just shocked. If you know of some way to make them sound better, please do tell. I guess the thousands of others who've told me otherwise don't have that acute ear you obtain

Ah, man... I don't have ears of gold. But I mean, you just told me the equipment you're using and, well... it sounds like a recording done with bad equipment. However, I should repeat that, given the gear you're apparantly using, your stuff sounds way better than it has a right to. I bet once you get out of the "PC mic/soundcard" category you're gonna sound pretty good.

Advise on making it sound better? Get a decent soundcard. Get a decent condensor mic. Learn to use compression and parametric EQ. Learn how to use reverb and delay. A lot of hip-hop vox are doubled and heavily compressed and often pretty dry and up-front. Depends on what you're going for though.

As far as "the right to comment on music I don't record". That's just goofy. Hip-hop doesn't exist in its own universe where the guidelines for capturing a decent signal don't apply. And I *am* a fan of the music. I just record other types of stuff.

No need to get into a pissing contest at all bro. But seriously, any "pro" who tells you they aren't adjusting the vocal eq's of High Mid and Low, is flat-out lying to you. I've been recording for 5 years now, and have worked with hundreds of artists... all of which, had their vocals eq'd in their sessions.

Your terminology suggests that you don't know very much about EQ (I'd especially recommend the articles on that subject over at studiocovers.com. Some great stuff there). You're obviously new at this, as many of us are. That's no crime (and I'm no expert either).We're all trying to learn. I'm just suggesting you might wanna take a break from passing out advice and do a little more reading and learning.

I'm honestly not trying to be rude, but your advice to a new guy wasn't good advice. It is NOT standard practice to run noise reduction on every track and it is NOT standard practive to EQ using a 3-band graphic EQ with which you boost the "high" band by 10 db. It just ain't the way it's done. It may be the way it's done when you're recording with a crappy soundcard and a PC mic but handing out advice like that is like saying "here's how to walk if you have no legs." Not real useful.

You've obviously got some talent, and I'd be willing to bet in a few years you'll look back on this conversation and think "ugh, I wish I knew *then* what I know now."

Cheers,
Chris

 

[Change of POETS]

Hey Brian:

Okay, this is becoming a little clearer now. I'm assuming you have a fairly low-grade soundcard, and if that's the case: yeah, you're gonna get noise on there. No, every soundcard will not require you to use noise reduction. If you use the card that came with your computer, yeah, probably...

If you actually recorded the stuff on your site with a PC mic and a crappy soundcard, you're doing pretty damn well. But when giving advice out, you probably shouldn't assume everyone else is using such primitive equipment. For a few hundred bucks you can get a decent soundcard and a decent condensor mic - it's been my experience that, generally, most people on this board have at least that much in the way of gear.

Actually... Family Letter (the recording on that site) was done on a crappy PC mic. 5-Mile Queen was done in a Professional Studio in Las Vegas, NV.

In the last 4 months, I've put together a nice home studio, and the last thingon my list is to buy a decent soundcard. I'm currently using a $50.00 Soundcard I picked up at a local PC store. I do however have a new condensor mic, and I'm in the process of utilizing a closet as a recording booth. It will ensure much more solid recordings.

However, I'd need to know which songs you thought sounded unprofessional... somehow I can bet they're the songs I recorded at home before I started building my studio. I've yet to use my new mic... I'm itching to do so.

Ah, man... I don't have ears of gold. But I mean, you just told me the equipment you're using and, well... it sounds like a recording done with bad equipment. However, I should repeat that, given the gear you're apparantly using, your stuff sounds way better than it has a right to. I bet once you get out of the "PC mic/soundcard" category you're gonna sound pretty good.

My studio recordings sound great actually.. unfortunately, soundclick lowers the bitrates on everything and they don't sound nearly as good as they truly are.

Advise on making it sound better? Get a decent soundcard. Get a decent condensor mic. Learn to use compression and parametric EQ. Learn how to use reverb and delay. A lot of hip-hop vox are doubled and heavily compressed and often pretty dry and up-front. Depends on what you're going for though.

I've got to be honest here. I'm a newbie when it comes to the Parametric EQ, I could use info on that for sure. But everything I do uses reverb and delay. I actually double and tripple effects sometimes, to achieve the exact reverb I'm looking for.

As far as "the right to comment on music I don't record". That's just goofy. Hip-hop doesn't exist in its own universe where the guidelines for capturing a decent signal don't apply. And I *am* a fan of the music. I just record other types of stuff.

I agree, and disagree. It's one thing to understand the basics of equipment and recording, it's another to impose on a genre you don't work with on a daily basis.

Your terminology suggests that you don't know very much about EQ (I'd especially recommend the articles on that subject over at studiocovers.com. Some great stuff there). You're obviously new at this, as many of us are. That's no crime (and I'm no expert either).We're all trying to learn. I'm just suggesting you might wanna take a break from passing out advice and do a little more reading and learning.

There's always more to learn, and I'll never be content with what I know. I'm always seeking more information, as I think we all are. But, why are you bagging on me for terminology? I'm from the ghetto man...lol.. I'm not always using the correct terminology, I know that... but it doesn't mean I don't know my way around the engineering booth.

I'm honestly not trying to be rude, but your advice to a new guy wasn't good advice. It is NOT standard practice to run noise reduction on every track and it is NOT standard practive to EQ using a 3-band graphic EQ with which you boost the "high" band by 10 db. It just ain't the way it's done. It may be the way it's done when you're recording with a crappy soundcard and a PC mic but handing out advice like that is like saying "here's how to walk if you have no legs." Not real useful.

I can understand where you're coming from. But clearly "logik" is a beginer in this, as I was when I wrote that mini-tutorial. He says it's helped him, and that was my intent. To help him at his current stage in recording... not attempt to get him to use those quidelines as the "Gospel of Hip-Hop recording"...lol... He may have a good mic and soundcard, but somehow, I figured that tutorial was right up his alley.

You've obviously got some talent, and I'd be willing to bet in a few years you'll look back on this conversation and think "ugh, I wish I knew *then* what I know now."

Cheers,
Chris

Thanks. I look back daily bro, and always wish I knew then, what I know now...lol.

 

[groucho]

Actually... Family Letter (the recording on that site) was done on a crappy PC mic. 5-Mile Queen was done in a Professional Studio in Las Vegas, NV.

In the last 4 months, I've put together a nice home studio, and the last thingon my list is to buy a decent soundcard. I'm currently using a $50.00 Soundcard I picked up at a local PC store. I do however have a new condensor mic, and I'm in the process of utilizing a closet as a recording booth. It will ensure much more solid recordings.

However, I'd need to know which songs you thought sounded unprofessional... somehow I can bet they're the songs I recorded at home before I started building my studio. I've yet to use my new mic... I'm itching to do so.
My studio recordings sound great actually.. unfortunately, soundclick lowers the bitrates on everything and they don't sound nearly as good as they truly are.

I'm getting a little unclear as to which songs you recorded and which were done by someone else in a studio. I finally got 5-mile queen to stream and it sounds a great deal better than the obviously home-recorded stuff. I don't think using that song as an example of your "turorial"'s techniques is really appropriate since it's obvious those techniques were not used on that song. The home-brewed stuff sounds much less professional - but it seems you're aware of that, so let's not beat this one into the ground.

I've got to be honest here. I'm a newbie when it comes to the Parametric EQ, I could use info on that for sure.

Again, the site I posted before is a great starting place for all kinds of EQ info. George Massenburg's forum is also a hellofa good spot (being as he invented the thing):
http://www.musicgearnetwork.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum;f=3;DaysPrune=30

I agree, and disagree. It's one thing to understand the basics of equipment and recording, it's another to impose on a genre you don't work with on a daily basis.

The basics of recording are pretty consistant from genre to genre. Different genres have different production styles associated with them, obviously (and those change from era to era even within the same genre - remember when every single rap recording out there was trying to cop Dre's style?). But a badly-recorded vocal is a badly-recorded vocal - regardless of genre.

But, why are you bagging on me for terminology? I'm from the ghetto man...lol.. I'm not always using the correct terminology, I know that... but it doesn't mean I don't know my way around the engineering booth.

Hey, I don't give a shit where you're from. Or where I'm from. We're all *here* - talking music and recording. It's the internet. We're all just words on a screen. When that's the case, words become important. I wasn't bagging on you. I just said that it was obvious from the words you were using that your grasp of EQ didn't extend much beyond the 3-band graphic track EQ in Cool Edit's multitrack view. I'm not trying to shame you or anything, fer chrissakes.

I can understand where you're coming from. But clearly "logik" is a beginer in this, as I was when I wrote that mini-tutorial. He says it's helped him, and that was my intent. To help him at his current stage in recording... not attempt to get him to use those quidelines as the "Gospel of Hip-Hop recording"...lol... He may have a good mic and soundcard, but somehow, I figured that tutorial was right up his alley.

I do understand that you meant well - and I think it's cool that we all try to share what we know. And likewise, if we share something that's incorrect or of questionable value, one of us should speak up and offer a correction. We keep an eye on each other a little bit and misinformation doesn't get tossed around to newbies who don't know the difference yet.

Thanks. I look back daily bro, and always wish I knew then, what I know now...lol. [/B]

Amen to that. Over and out.

Chris

 

[Rockr56]

Good thing. I just ran outta popcorn....Nice thread.

 

[chrisharris]

Good thing. I just ran outta popcorn....Nice thread.

BAHAHAhahahahaaa... Nice one.

I should let your post be the last, b/c it's so perfect, but I can't leave this thread without throwing at least one "I agree with Groucho" statement in here. I tried to listen to your tunes a few days ago, COP, but they weren't working. However, Groucho's description ("tin can") is actually EXACTLY how it should sound if you followed your advice. I won't comment further, b/c I can't get the tune to work. But if ANY of those settings are in a CEP tutorial, then I'll go on the record right now by saying that they should stick to writing software...For example:

Hi - 12.4
Mid - 6.2
Low - 3.1

You know what you're doing if you boost the Hi's, the Lo's, and the Mids? lmao - yeah, you're turning up the volume knob. That doesn't even make mathematical sense, and MY GOD, jacking up the HIGHS by 12.4db? I don't care if you've got a $2,000 Layla soundcard, THAT alone will make the track hissy and crappy, thereby requiring other crappy stuff (like noise redux).

Sorry, I guess this has all been covered, but I didn't want Groucho looking like the lone voice of reason in here. I'm no pro either; I'm just an attorney, but as an attorney, I can say that your advice is criminal, lol.

 

[Rockr56]

Chris, i'm happy to say he's at it again in the "Mixdown Clipping" thread.
I'll get the Jiffy Pop.