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ecs113
New member
Anigavmusic - see what happens when you ask about a home-mastering question on this BBS?
camn
Active member
Anigavmusic-- The answer is... you cant. You CAN get a pretty loud and polished MIX at home, though.. and even go beyond what you would do if you WERE going to use a professional ME. search the site re: T-racks, Ozone, and 'mastering' to find out how.
And Incidentally.. you need to talk with your ME regarding Format. they may prefer a certain format.. or one may save you mony. For instance.. if your ME uses a Sadie system... odds are he can work directly off of a SCSI drive... whereas if you sent him a CD24.. he would need to "load in" the tracks.. which can take up to the program length.. depending. If you are paying a $100 an hour..you just saved $100 by bringing your drive in.
SO talk to the ME. see what he prefers.
xoox
And Incidentally.. you need to talk with your ME regarding Format. they may prefer a certain format.. or one may save you mony. For instance.. if your ME uses a Sadie system... odds are he can work directly off of a SCSI drive... whereas if you sent him a CD24.. he would need to "load in" the tracks.. which can take up to the program length.. depending. If you are paying a $100 an hour..you just saved $100 by bringing your drive in.
SO talk to the ME. see what he prefers.
xoox
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ecs113
New member
It seems like the problem is an ambiguity of the term Master. Do you want to create a master to be duplicated, or do you want to "finalize" or premaster your work?
demo > DIY
$$$$ > mastering engineer
You sound like you want to DIY, so I would research mastering techniques. Since you want to "master" on PC, use good software and plugins - Waves plugins work well for me....
demo > DIY
$$$$ > mastering engineer
You sound like you want to DIY, so I would research mastering techniques. Since you want to "master" on PC, use good software and plugins - Waves plugins work well for me....
M
mixsit
Well-known member
Yea. 
Assuming it is not going to GeT Mastering anyway...
Maybe if we just called it something else. DIY sounds good.
Collect your songs as new tracks in Soundforge.
Sequence them the way you want them. Try alternate seguences.
Edit trim the beginings and ends.
Does sound forge have volune automation or envelopes? Clean up the intro and mess with the fadeouts, even the songs' total volume- Or, even do slight changes within the songs you might have missed in the 'mix'.
Burn some CD's and listen a few days later, see how they still fit.
Listen to how they flow from one to next. Do some seem to stick out or not blend? Check out the effect dynamics, peaks, and compression have as it effects how loud a song sounds compared to another. Is it a volume issue, tonal or dynamics?
The other way to do a lot of this is in the mix. But if you're up to your ears in the project, some distance (read time) may be needed to keep perspective. Thus, a fresh set of professional ears...
As long as we know we're just messing around.
Have fun
Assuming it is not going to GeT Mastering anyway...
Maybe if we just called it something else. DIY sounds good.
anigavmusic said:
Collect your songs as new tracks in Soundforge.
Sequence them the way you want them. Try alternate seguences.
Edit trim the beginings and ends.
Does sound forge have volune automation or envelopes? Clean up the intro and mess with the fadeouts, even the songs' total volume- Or, even do slight changes within the songs you might have missed in the 'mix'.
Burn some CD's and listen a few days later, see how they still fit.
Listen to how they flow from one to next. Do some seem to stick out or not blend? Check out the effect dynamics, peaks, and compression have as it effects how loud a song sounds compared to another. Is it a volume issue, tonal or dynamics?
The other way to do a lot of this is in the mix. But if you're up to your ears in the project, some distance (read time) may be needed to keep perspective. Thus, a fresh set of professional ears...
As long as we know we're just messing around.
Have fun
camn
Active member
A good way, I think, for homers to do some finishing on a two track...is to trade jobs with another reccer. Cuz fresh ears are very, very important. If you know anyone... you might try it. You do theirs, they do yours.
xoox
xoox
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ecs113
New member
Attn: Anti-homemastering people
What should people call the mastering process at home so that they can ask questions about it and not have to deal with ME ego?
Ex: finalizing? homemastering?
It seems every time someone asks a question about finalizing their work after mixdown, the thread descends into an argument about mastering at home, regardless of the person's purpose for the final product.
anigavmusic I record my music using a Boss BR-8 Digital 8-Track Recorder with 64 V-Tracks. I mix the tracks on my computer using Acid 4.0. I have Soundforge 6.0 and Cool Edit Pro for editing tracks. When I have a final mix, how can I master songs?
Blue Bear Sound The ideal way is to send it to a mastering house........!
Using that advice, I would be in serious debt due to the number of my personal projects....
What should people call the mastering process at home so that they can ask questions about it and not have to deal with ME ego?
Ex: finalizing? homemastering?
It seems every time someone asks a question about finalizing their work after mixdown, the thread descends into an argument about mastering at home, regardless of the person's purpose for the final product.
anigavmusic I record my music using a Boss BR-8 Digital 8-Track Recorder with 64 V-Tracks. I mix the tracks on my computer using Acid 4.0. I have Soundforge 6.0 and Cool Edit Pro for editing tracks. When I have a final mix, how can I master songs?
Blue Bear Sound The ideal way is to send it to a mastering house........!
Using that advice, I would be in serious debt due to the number of my personal projects....
Blue Bear Sound
New member
Before more nonsense about "ME ego" rears its head..........
I posted a couple of extremely informative links to Bob Katz's "mastering tips" ........
Did ANY of you actually look at them???????????
I posted a couple of extremely informative links to Bob Katz's "mastering tips" ........
Did ANY of you actually look at them???????????
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GraFx Pro
New member
Re: Before more nonsense about "ME ego" rears its head..........
I did and ordered the Book!!
Blue Bear Sound said:I posted a couple of extremely informative links to Bob Katz's "mastering tips" ........
Did ANY of you actually look at them???????????
I did and ordered the Book!!
camn
Active member
I didnt... I already read them.
xoxo
xoxo
Blue Bear Sound
New member
Well...
...I wasn't really talking about you, eh Camn!
I think the people I was referring to know who they are............
...I wasn't really talking about you, eh Camn!
I think the people I was referring to know who they are............
Toki987
Rock Steady
Ya know.... I watch and see folks drop in and ask questions about things, even if they maybe aren`t going to involve themselves in what they are asking for, at least they are inquisitive and seeking knowledge. I watch as genuinely sincere and dedicated craftsmen use their time to explain processes, offer advice, and give honest personal opinions based on experience. That really turns me on in a big way. It develops fellowship, community, and raises the average bar for everyone. That is cool for the universe...
What really pisses in the campfire are those folks that come in here seemingly out of nowhere with no visible, proclaimed, or vouched for credentials seeking a craftsman sharing his/her knowledge of the craft with a novice or an apprentice and openly attack their ongoing guidance, advice, or instruction. This takes away from the issue at hand, the inquiring person has to "sit it out", and all manners of diplomacy, wisdom, and patience are taxed. For what? nothing, other than some idiot to have left a 6 toed footprint in somebody elses sand and perhaps riding off into the sunset filled with beautiful illusions of grandeur instead of good, solid, educational truth that would probably have hung them in shame had they dared to accept it.
Blue Bear and you other folks that endure this and keep on keepin on... hats off to ya!
What really pisses in the campfire are those folks that come in here seemingly out of nowhere with no visible, proclaimed, or vouched for credentials seeking a craftsman sharing his/her knowledge of the craft with a novice or an apprentice and openly attack their ongoing guidance, advice, or instruction. This takes away from the issue at hand, the inquiring person has to "sit it out", and all manners of diplomacy, wisdom, and patience are taxed. For what? nothing, other than some idiot to have left a 6 toed footprint in somebody elses sand and perhaps riding off into the sunset filled with beautiful illusions of grandeur instead of good, solid, educational truth that would probably have hung them in shame had they dared to accept it.
Blue Bear and you other folks that endure this and keep on keepin on... hats off to ya!
camn
Active member
I like the word "finalizing" for the end-stage limiting and normalizing (gasp!) that a homereccer would do at home to a 2trk... with no intention of having it properly mastered.... and the word "layout" for the setting up of tracks to redbook specs.. and creating a PQ sheet.
I like different words, because I think comparing what I would do to a demo to get some volume out of it... comparing that to a real mastering job really cheapens and confuses the term "mastering". And its really already cheap and confused enough. A lot of RECORDING studios offer so-called "mastering" servies... but really they are just doing some additional Finalizing and Layout work.. hopefully for less money than a Mastering House would cost.
Mastering is a fine art that requires:
experience (read... lots of exp MIXING, as well),
a great listening environment (read.. no tape machine in the corner throwing off 10k reflections),
great ears (read.. not some aging rocker with no hearing over 8k),
and an objective outlook (read... not you).
thats my 2cent
xoxo
I like different words, because I think comparing what I would do to a demo to get some volume out of it... comparing that to a real mastering job really cheapens and confuses the term "mastering". And its really already cheap and confused enough. A lot of RECORDING studios offer so-called "mastering" servies... but really they are just doing some additional Finalizing and Layout work.. hopefully for less money than a Mastering House would cost.
Mastering is a fine art that requires:
experience (read... lots of exp MIXING, as well),
a great listening environment (read.. no tape machine in the corner throwing off 10k reflections
),great ears (read.. not some aging rocker with no hearing over 8k),
and an objective outlook (read... not you).
thats my 2cent
xoxo
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mixsit
Well-known member
camn said:I like the word "finalizing" for the end-stage limiting and normalizing (gasp!) that a homereccer would do at home to a 2trk... with no intention of having it properly mastered.... and the word "layout" for the setting up of tracks to redbook specs.. and creating a PQ sheet.
I like different words, because I think comparing what I would do to a demo to get some volume out of it... comparing that to a real mastering job really cheapens and confuses the term "mastering". And its really already cheap and confused enough. A lot of RECORDING studios offer so-called "mastering" servies... but really they are just doing some additional Finalizing and Layout work.. hopefully for less money than a Mastering House would cost.
Mastering is a fine art that requires:
experience (read... lots of exp MIXING, as well),
a great listening environment (read.. no tape machine in the corner throwing off 10k reflections
great ears (read.. not some aging rocker with no hearing over 8k),
and an objective outlook (read... not you).
thats my 2cent
xoxo
Please stop trying to devaluate your input!
M
Mix_Trix
New member
....
I've always thought that If anyone had enough desire and could learn.. they could do whatever they wanted.. that is within their limits.. just have to really learn from others that are good and figure out how they accomplish that sound... then the hard part, practice, practice, practice.... but telling someone they can't do it themself isn't a good thing.. maybe they don't have the natural ear for it.. but at least let them find out what kinda talent they have.. Hopefully we can all read and study and become better at everything we set out to do.. but I feel he was really just searching for some advice to help him get started.. and it can't hurt to learn more about it.. even if he does decide to get a ME to work on it.. he will actually maybe understand what the ME did or the process.... the links that was provided was plenty enough to get ya started.. if he wants to get that serious and has the desire to really learn this.. he will do whatever he can to get better.. Let's not stop people from trying... just my 2 cents on the matter..
P.S. Thank god Bob Ludwig didn't come here first when he decided he wanted to learn how to Master... he'd probably be washing cars for a living.. lol.. only slightly kidding
I've always thought that If anyone had enough desire and could learn.. they could do whatever they wanted.. that is within their limits.. just have to really learn from others that are good and figure out how they accomplish that sound... then the hard part, practice, practice, practice.... but telling someone they can't do it themself isn't a good thing.. maybe they don't have the natural ear for it.. but at least let them find out what kinda talent they have.. Hopefully we can all read and study and become better at everything we set out to do.. but I feel he was really just searching for some advice to help him get started.. and it can't hurt to learn more about it.. even if he does decide to get a ME to work on it.. he will actually maybe understand what the ME did or the process.... the links that was provided was plenty enough to get ya started.. if he wants to get that serious and has the desire to really learn this.. he will do whatever he can to get better.. Let's not stop people from trying... just my 2 cents on the matter..
P.S. Thank god Bob Ludwig didn't come here first when he decided he wanted to learn how to Master... he'd probably be washing cars for a living.. lol.. only slightly kidding
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littledog
New member
this subject comes up again and again, and unfortunately, repeatedly goes off on tangents that stretch the bounds of logic.
some people bristle at the idea that there can be a better solution than "do it yourself". Their argument is often fueled by the fact that the economics of home recording has made it possible for even the most broke among us to record and mix in ways that were not possible a few years ago.
but unfortunately, the same is not true for mastering. it still requires a heavy investment in room design, amps, speakers, processors, and other hardware. And also a heavy investment in experience and training.
Drs. Cooley and DeBakey would not have been "discouraged" by people saying heart transplant surgery is probably not a good field for amateurs. They spent years of technical training, more years of personal experience and research, and had access to equipment and facilities that cost millions of dollars.
Someone brought up Bob Ludwig. One guess what his opinion of home mastering would be! No one is discouraging the budding Mr.Ludwigs. He'd be the first to tell you: You want to be a mastering engineer? Pay your dues and apprentice with a "master".
And would you care to take a guess what the cost of building a studio equivalent to just one of Bob's rooms would be?
Using the same logic, why not plan and build a manned rocket to Mars in your back yard? Because, among a hundred other reasons, the costs of doing it yourself and doing anything close to a good job would be prohibitive.
Now, no one is saying that mastering a song is quite the same as heart transplants or space flight, mostly because human lives aren't at stake. But in all these cases, to do it successfully does involve a high level of financial investment and expertise.
But, the argument goes, why can't we just try it ourselves on our own computers for fun? Well, of course you can. But let's assume you've spent a lot of time and effort recording and mixing a group of songs to the best of your ability. There's the key: you've already made them sound as good as you can given your ability and equipment. Now, all of a sudden, by running them through some cheap software (through the same speakers in the same room), you are now going to hear things you couldn't hear in the mix process and suddenly acquire the skill and/or talent to improve or correct them?
Seems like an exercise in futility to me. But I guess the beauty of being a hobbyist is there's no price for your labor. So knock yourselves out.
I'm not saying you can't sequence your songs, balance their volumes, fine tune fades, and burn a CD. Just don't confuse doing that with professional mastering.
some people bristle at the idea that there can be a better solution than "do it yourself". Their argument is often fueled by the fact that the economics of home recording has made it possible for even the most broke among us to record and mix in ways that were not possible a few years ago.
but unfortunately, the same is not true for mastering. it still requires a heavy investment in room design, amps, speakers, processors, and other hardware. And also a heavy investment in experience and training.
Drs. Cooley and DeBakey would not have been "discouraged" by people saying heart transplant surgery is probably not a good field for amateurs. They spent years of technical training, more years of personal experience and research, and had access to equipment and facilities that cost millions of dollars.
Someone brought up Bob Ludwig. One guess what his opinion of home mastering would be! No one is discouraging the budding Mr.Ludwigs. He'd be the first to tell you: You want to be a mastering engineer? Pay your dues and apprentice with a "master".
And would you care to take a guess what the cost of building a studio equivalent to just one of Bob's rooms would be?
Using the same logic, why not plan and build a manned rocket to Mars in your back yard? Because, among a hundred other reasons, the costs of doing it yourself and doing anything close to a good job would be prohibitive.
Now, no one is saying that mastering a song is quite the same as heart transplants or space flight, mostly because human lives aren't at stake. But in all these cases, to do it successfully does involve a high level of financial investment and expertise.
But, the argument goes, why can't we just try it ourselves on our own computers for fun? Well, of course you can. But let's assume you've spent a lot of time and effort recording and mixing a group of songs to the best of your ability. There's the key: you've already made them sound as good as you can given your ability and equipment. Now, all of a sudden, by running them through some cheap software (through the same speakers in the same room), you are now going to hear things you couldn't hear in the mix process and suddenly acquire the skill and/or talent to improve or correct them?
Seems like an exercise in futility to me. But I guess the beauty of being a hobbyist is there's no price for your labor. So knock yourselves out.
I'm not saying you can't sequence your songs, balance their volumes, fine tune fades, and burn a CD. Just don't confuse doing that with professional mastering.
Blue Bear Sound
New member
The diminutive canine speaks the truth!
I couldn't have said that better myself.........!
I couldn't have said that better myself.........!
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ecs113
New member
littledog said:
Or with amateur mastering....
fprod south
Member
littledog said:
But can't we ask for advice?
mixmkr
we don't need rest!!
I think the issue is not whether you can master stuff at home or not..or need a "pro" facility to do it right. What seems to be left out of the discussion is where the line is drawn, if you can even draw one. Certainly there are home mastering hobbiests doing better jobs than pro facilities, just like home tracking/mixing studios doing 'better' final product than pro setups. So...going to a professional mastering facility isn't really the key, imo, but going to a facility that will improve your final product....which most professional facilities will do, over the home do-it-yourself-er. There are many 'pro' facilities in home environments without the luxury of mega $$ spent on room treatment and the like. Just a good set of ears and a brain between them, and even an equipment outlay less than the price of a new Lexus. Like I have posted before, http://www.rodneymills.com is an example of that. So, whether you can do it at home or not, or have to take it to a pro facility, are not the questions with exact answers... just generalizations. Personally, I disagree with many of the "rules" that are discussed in these kind of threads. I feel the people who spend 100 grand+ on a studio/facility will always say that is what it takes to be a pro setup as a min. I couldn't disagree more. Depends on the goals. Certainly a synth oriented setup, with a computer can produce more than "professional" results. Who needs an incredible acoustically treated tracking room if 95% of your stuff is recorded sans mics and/or all close mic'd? Who needs an acoustically treated control room if it is large enough to avoid sound bouncing around allover or use of nearfield monitors? No one to both questions. If you can do a "better" job with your WAVES bundle, than a pro, then so be it. Afterall, it is the buying public that will decide, not the people that are telling you "how to record/master" your stuff. There are plenty of examples [or exceptions..depending on how you want to look at it] floating around to prove this point
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greggybud
New member
I really wish someone like Bob Ludwig or Glen Meadows would take a mixdown fresh from the studio, go into a bedroom with a little mixer, some Mackie HR824s, a PC with Waves Mastering, Wavelab, and ask him to produce the best mastering job possible.
I believe this would then demonstrate the difference between years of expierence and those just starting out. It would also demonstrate the difference between Waves Software and the real thing. And it would demonstrate the difference between the accoustics of a 10x10 bedroom and an accousticly engineered facility.
I would be the first to be currious about the results..........
I believe this would then demonstrate the difference between years of expierence and those just starting out. It would also demonstrate the difference between Waves Software and the real thing. And it would demonstrate the difference between the accoustics of a 10x10 bedroom and an accousticly engineered facility.
I would be the first to be currious about the results..........