How Can I Fix this Mix (heavy clip)

[B.C.Johnson]

Before you open the link, yes I am aware that a crappy streaming file isn't sufficient to make an insightful comment. It'll just give an idea of what I have on my plate. Also keep in mind that it's my first try at mixing.

I'm having some difficulty getting a punchy, clear sound. I'm using Nuendo & some plugins with a pair of Wharfedale Diamond 8.2 Pro monitors. The mix sounds balanced through the monitors (plenty of bass), but when I take it to the car, it's obnoxiously bassy and not in your face. The sound seems to be coming from the rear of the car as well, as opposed to any pro recording I play. Are my monitors, lying to me? What can I do to clean things up a little?

http://www.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewProfile&friendID=4248395&Mytoken=20041005152953


EDIT: Higher Quality mp3's here:
http://www.musicv2.com/artist/bcjohnson

 

[Cloneboy Studio]

First off... did you bother to track a bass guitar or did you just decide to let the guitars provide the low end? What I'm trying to say is your guitars have too much low end and sound like mud... except for that fizzy high end resulting from too much high end.

Believe it or not, it is okay to have some mids in your sound. There's nothing nastier than "bass 10, mids 0, treble 10" type settings. Guitar is *ALL* about the midrange. It's a midrange instrument. A little low end and some clarity on top is fine, but zero mids is always a no-no if you care about tone... or remotely having a chance to mix it.

Bozos that record with me using that type of setting and refuse to listen to reason (or their ears) force me to high pass filter them big time and try to EQ in some mids. However, it is best to get that sound from the amp and go from there.

Also, lack of crisp definition on the cymbals robs you of any high end fidelity. Sounds like a drum machine or samples though.

Possible solutions:

Re-record guitar with a less scooped sound.

Run high pass filter around 120hz on the guitars.

Add some 7-10khz and 14khz to the overhead/cymbals.

Add some low end meat to your kick while you're at it. The guitar shouldn't be your low end.

If you didn't before--record a bass as well. In fact, record it BEFORE you record guitar so you can hear how little 'stoopit metal low end' you really need to have in there.

 

[B.C.Johnson]

Yes, there is a bass track. In fact, I completely cut the lows on the guitars from about 150hz and below. Any bass you hear is bass.

Guitars are POD. The patches had mids set at about 12:00.

Drums are samples - Drumkit From Hell Superior. I compressed the crap out of them, so that would further reveal the fact that they are samples, in addition to being sequenced.

 

[Cloneboy Studio]

Okay, big problem is that the bass fails to punch thru the mix and have any distinction. Try a 800hz boost on the bass guitars.

My thoughts are this: too much emulation, not enough reality. POD on top of samples... maybe its not possible in your budget/schedule but real instruments sound and mix better (when properly recorded). The guitars are sounding very lacking in guts and body, hence the assumption that no mids were dialed in.

However, based on the info you just gave me... try lightening up on any low end boosts you are making... it may be obscuring the mids and highs. The object is to get a well balanced mix (stereo, levels and freq response) that has a sweet top and thumpin' bottom.

 

[B.C.Johnson]

Ok, I made an update. I tried to salvage what I had without retracking. On the guitars, I boosted the mids, rolled off on the highs. I boosted the highs on the bass guitar, and made some adjustment to the drum compression and overall compression and eq.

If this is an improvement at all, let me know, so I know not to give up on recording all together.

http://www.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewProfile&friendID=4248395&Mytoken=20041005213432

By the way, I remixed this with headphones (big no no in recording, I know), but it's late and my parents are sleeping. They are the main reason I'm not using real instruments for the time being. In order to get a good guitar track, I have neither the proper mics, pre's, outboard compressors, eq's, or opportunities to crank up the amp and allow the speakers to excurse. POD and DFHS will have to do for now.

 

[formerlyfzfile]

Re-mix sounds a lot better.

Nice job improving the mix.

One thing I've noticed (in my experience) with POD guitars is that the more layers you have, the thinner the sound will get.

Its so easy to layer 12 tracks of guitar when you can switch to a different amp or whatever at the touch of a button, but the mix will tend to lose the crunch and growl and DYNAMICS of the guitars...... it just becomes washed out.

I'm not sure if you have many layers or not but using less layers can sometimes bring the guitars out more ...... if thats what you want.

Bass-wise......... its almost impossible to go direct (only) with the bass and get any kind of real low end that will hold up in a mix of heavy guitars without a LOT of wattage or you have a really good DI/pre-amp ........... i.e. run it through a bass head (at least) and take a line out from that.
You can get a LOT more power and supportive bottom end that way.

Maybe also try un-compressing stuff ....... especially drum samples, unless you want that pump-for-effect kinda thing.

.... and everybody's room is different to mix in so sometimes you gotta just keep burning trial mixes till everyone in the car is headbangin ....... the ultimate mix test.

-mike

 

[B.C.Johnson]

Thanks for the replies, Cloneboy Studio & formerlyfzfile.

There are four total guitar layers - two prominent layers, panned hard L & R; and two lesser prominent, panned closer to the center.

I'll definitely need to work on bass a bit (playing-wise also!) I'm getting a new bass soon, and I'll see if I can borrow a 52 from someone and try some actual acoustic recording.

Even though I have VERY little experience, I can conclude that before I ever fool around with recording with samples or Pods, I should know how to record the REAL THING. But that route is a lot more expensive for now...

I'm going to try to set up a web site or something, where I can post actual mp3 clips; I really don't think these heavily compressed, streaming things do justice (if any should be given).

 

[B.C.Johnson]

Here are some higher quality mp3's

http://www.musicv2.com/artist/bcjohnson