how can i fix can i fix a really dull bas drum ?

papusnance

New member
Hi guys

Im recording a punkrock band
I some of the drum tracks resulted having a really "ummph" kick drum sound.. there is no attack, no punch
and i figured that some really punchy mid frequencies in a punkrock kickdrum are essential in order for it to survive all the distorted guitars and stick out on the mix.

We had like 8 recording sessions because the drumer is really bad, thats why some of the drum tracks are different than others

anyway

i have tried aplying distortion, drum triggering, exagerated EQ (which doesn't work because the mic catched a lot of cymbal spill,... so when i boost the mids i also boost a horrible cymbal sound)

I also tried gating it, and then EQing.. but it sounds really wierd.

im thinking about uploading a sample so you get what im saying !

any recomendations ?
 
Depending on what the kick sounds like (which you should post), subtractive eq may be a better technique. Also, do you know how to set a gate properly, or perhaps how to use trigger plugins? Those seem like pretty good solutions I'm confused why neither worked.
 
Definitely post a sample. I could be convinced to replace you kick drum tracks with samples. Well, send you samples that you can add to enhance what you have. Only if you ask nice. :)
 
First, tune the drum up real nice.
Then check your mic placement. Expirement.
Then record your tracks.
Then mix. I usually do the complete opposite of what you did with the EQ. I record a tama star classic birch kick/battered heads (I prefer transparent but my drummer likes battered) with an Audix D6. I place the mic right at the opening of the head or an inch or two inside the drum (one of those heads with the 4 inch hole). I usually dip the mids and increase the bass and upper frequencies. This provides a nice thwippy upper treble mixed with some bass tones. Obviously no setting works for everyone but this is what I use most oftern.
 
Fast punk rock requires a lot of attack in the 2.5 to 5 kHz region, more than likely with a bit of a mid cut around 300 to 600 Hz and a polite low end. You may even need to cut some low end with a low shelf to get the kick to cut through. If there's lots of doubles the low end will eat up your head room.

In punk it's the slap you need, not the low end.

You could always try and trigger the kick with a bright sample but if the tempo is fast it might take quite a bit of manual placement to get right.

Hope that helps.

Cheers :)
 
View attachment Bass Drum sample2.mp3

Here it is , yeah

I totally agree with you burgundy but we recorded drums with another guy that wouldn't let me change the way he was recording it :/

you'll see there is a bunch of spill from the cymbals
when i try to gate it , each kick sound comes with a piece of cymbal-hit and it sounds weird


the drum trigger I use is called replacer, what plugin do you recomend ?
i think the replacer doesn't let me adjust the samples manually

I had a creative idea though.. which is to reproduce the kickdrum track through a crappy guitar amp for it to naturally distort... mic the amp and use that track, what do you think ?
 
This is what has worked for me. Until I bought an AKG D112 kick mc, I was dealing with a super dull CAD kick drum mic which may as well only be used on old classic rock replica recordings or jazz tunes, because there is absolutely no attack. Just dull low end. Gotta work with what you have.

If you can re-record the track, start by putting the mic further in the drum and point it just a little off-axis from the beater. If it's too late, do this...

Here's a starting point. Add a compressor and get your settings the way you want them. This is to even out the louder/quieter hits. Start with a preset for kick drums and tweak from there. Google or Youtube kick drum compression settings to learn the basics.

Then...Hi-pass filter it at around 50hz (so you're cutting anything off below 50 hz), EQ out the boxiness in the mid range (sweep around to find it), boost any lows in the 75-90 hz areas if needed, using a hi Q sweep around the upper range anywhere from 1-6k to find the frequency that really makes the beater attack stand out. Widen the Q a bit and give that freq a total boost of 3 db or more depending on how much you need to boost it. Call this track "KICK".

Then send a copy of the kick track to an aux (or literally make a copy of it), use an eq and high pass it to the max. Only boost that same higher freq you boosted on your original kick track (or sweep around to find an alternate freq in the same area that does an equally good job at bringing out the attack of the beater, so you're not over boosting the exact same freq). Once you find the freq, give it a pretty narrow Q and raise it up in an over-exaggerated manner (because you said REALLY dull, right?). I'm not talking 15 dB here, maybe 10 max, but use your ears (and your eyes to watch clipping the track or drum bus, or master)! Then roll off any of the frequencies that have not been boosted on this track. That way, the only frequencies that will be heard on this track are the ones you boosted. Call this track "BEATER".

Make sure you send at least the beater track to your drum reverb send. Not too much, just enough so you can hear it when the beater track is in solo mode. It'll stick out way too much if you don't try this.

Now, raise the KICK track up in the mix and see how it sounds with your newly added eq parametres, with all the right frequencies cut and boosted. If it's already good where it's at, you're set. But if still too dull, slowly start to raise up your "BEATER" track until you hear the amount of pedal click that you want. A lot of styles may vary, but for rock, hard rock, metal, etc you may want more beater than say a jazz album (probably no beater in that case). Just for example.

If you want to give your kick more "flavour" or character in the mix, sometime harmonics can help you think the overall sound the drum to be more full and present. If money's tight, try a cheaper plugin like the BBE Harmonic Maximizer and tweak until desired tone (no, not the Sound Maximizer).

Listen to some 90's albums like Soundgraden Superunknown, Pearl Jam Ten, Metallica Black Album or Load (back when drum sounds were sweet due to good engineering/mixing rather just cheating with modern day garbage like drum replacement and auto-drummers). You can almost hear the separation of those the two (main kick and beater). Almost as if they did the same thing. Some may have, but I doubt all.
 

Good luck with that.

That kick track sounds so bad that it may be hopeless. You say the drummer is bad, which may be true, but as the recorder it's your job to get a usable track. You can't blame the drummer for your own shoddy tracking techniques. Having said that, you need to get comfy with a gate, and then compress and EQ as necessary, and it's gonna be very necessary. The settings and paramters you use are up to you. You have to figure that out on your own. All these blanket statements getting posted might be a fair starting point, but you gotta decide for yourself.
 
Good luck with that.

That kick track sounds so bad that it may be hopeless. You say the drummer is bad, which may be true, but as the recorder it's your job to get a usable track. You can't blame the drummer for your own shoddy tracking techniques. Having said that, you need to get comfy with a gate, and then compress and EQ as necessary, and it's gonna be very necessary. The settings and paramters you use are up to you. You have to figure that out on your own. All these blanket statements getting posted might be a fair starting point, but you gotta decide for yourself.

No need to sugar coat it so, Greg :D.
 
I'm sorry if my comments seemed harsh. Someone has to tell the truth though. I totally respect people helping and giving advice, but how do you do it without hearing the clip? No offense to the OP, but that is a really bad kick track. He can learn a lot from this.

This just goes to show how undeniably important it is to have the drums sounding good and use good mic placement before you press record.
 
I wasn't dissing. Telling it plain and simple - nothing wrong with that (although I think the OP mentioned he wasn't allowed to change the recording method). Hence the all-nullifying smiley :D.
 
I'm sorry if my comments seemed harsh. Someone has to tell the truth though. I totally respect people helping and giving advice, but how do you do it without hearing the clip? No offense to the OP, but that is a really bad kick track. He can learn a lot from this.

This just goes to show how undeniably important it is to have the drums sounding good and use good mic placement before you press record.
I didn't read anything harsh in your comment. It was honest and helpful.....and correct. That's not just because we're friends. If a stranger typed the same thing you did, I would have said "Finally someone giving this guy advice that will help him".
 
I'm sorry if my comments seemed harsh. Someone has to tell the truth though. I totally respect people helping and giving advice, but how do you do it without hearing the clip? No offense to the OP, but that is a really bad kick track. He can learn a lot from this.

This just goes to show how undeniably important it is to have the drums sounding good and use good mic placement before you press record.

Not harsh as I am reading it that there were 8 sessions to sort this out?

I have been in the position that we have sound checked the drums and the kick sounds fine, then the band suddenly play a Ballard (after sound checking as if it's a rock song coming up) and the kick sounds flabby and horrible due to it not being hit properly (like the rock drum sound check). Then they say, "Thats the best we have ever ever played this song, it's a keeper," so now I have to massage a kick sound out of the flab. What do you do?

Put the kick channel through a 31 band eq. Cut around 250hz sharp around 250 and slope either side. Take out everything below 60hz with a gentle slope right out by 20hz. Now the real fun begins. Take out the highs above 8khz completely (this is to get the high end of the cymbals out of the kick), now have a listen to the upper mids and listen for and horrible stuff by cutting different frequencies until it sounds better, you have to experiment with how much and how many. When you get if sounding OK try adding a little 4khz to see if the attack improves without effecting the cymbal spill too much. Now Compress (ratio anything from 6:1 to 10:1 fast attack slower release, you have to mess with this) and gate as best you can.

Listen to how it sounds with the overheads added, if the kick starts to sound mushy, low cut the overheads below about 200hz. Try flipping the phase of the overheads.

Is this coming together? The 31 band thing with me was from my live sound days where I had a 31 band in the kick channel as I had 4 bands a night with a 2 min sound check between bands so with the 31 band I could always get a kick sound without the time I would usually use to fix it at the source.

Alan.
 
The kick drum sounds pretty lousy, but not something that you can't work with. I would compress it with a slow attack, fast release (1176), cut around 500Hz with a fat bell Q, boost a little around 4.5K and do a LPF at around 5K to get rid of some of the bleed from the cymbals and try and work with that.
 
Greg, you are totally right
thanks for the advice!
but it seems you didn't read past the "here it is, yeah"

"I totally agree with you burgundy but we recorded drums with another guy that wouldn't let me change the way he was recording it :/" - Me

im not blaming the drummer for the sound of kick, but if you pay attention to the track you can notice he has a really bad sense of timing, that's why it took like 8 recording sessions of 3-4 hours to get semi-decent tracks

Im learning a really vauable lesson here though hahaha (ill record my own drums ! woo!)

Thanks guys for your advice ! i'll try all your recomendations and give U feedback

again what drum triggerin' plugin do you recomend ?
 
"I totally agree with you burgundy but we recorded drums with another guy that wouldn't let me change the way he was recording it :/" - Me

Wait....so were you the guy setting up all the mics and such and recording it? Or was somebody else doing it? WHO ARE YOU?! :D

If it was you, then you just have to "get it right" at the source. Nice tuned heads, nice playing, great mic placement (close to the beater), etc. If the band went to someone else to record that drum track though, I'd smack that fool upside the head.
 
I don't have the equipment to record drums , don't have the mics , don't have the multi channel interface.... so we went to a home studio, and the guy did all the mic placement and stuff... his gear, his rules you know.

I'm just starting, please be patient hahahaha.


but thanks anyway, all comments are apreciated
 
Back
Top