How are you supposed to know

  • Thread starter Thread starter ste20man
  • Start date Start date
S

ste20man

New member
Hi all.

I am near enough finished with my set-up now and am really happy with what I've got.

USA Fender Highway Tele, DS-1, You Dirty Rat. Fender Blues Deluxe, AT4040, SM57 Saffire 6, FL Studio, KRK Rokit 5's.

From what I've read though, every room should be treated acoustically. I've read a book recently by Mike Senior and he says if you don't sort out the room you lose half the price of your speakers right up front. That has really stuck with me and I think I want to tackle this now.

I have a major problem(I think) in that I am trapped in an alcove and have nowhere else to put my PC. If I were guessing then I would say this would cause major bass resonance issues. But being so new to this game I have no objective reference points or past knowledge with which to know.

I don't know how it's 'supposed' to sound ideally.

As I'm mixing it sounds good. But then again it could be due to where the speakers are, giving a false impression because of the rooms acoustics. If it was that I wouldn't know any different as I have no access to any cd players(Although I'm going to try my iPod) to guage what's different between the two.

I am also going to start comparing other records - Nevermind as an example as to what my sound sounds like, if you know what I mean.

If you guys could help me and look at the pictures of the my room on my flickr site:

Flickr: Galerie de ste20man

and give me your visual opinion on what could be wrong(Bass / Treble?) and what you would do to change treat this space as best as possible I'd be really grateful.

I have been looking around at soundproofing material and came across this company where I think this product could coverall behind the PC and speakers. To be honest I don't know why this particular bundle. To me it looks value for money but as to why I should go for this particular one, I don't know:

Auralex D36-DST Roominator (Charcoal)

Any ideas would be more than welcome. Cheers, Ste. :-)
 
You should really search the forum for info on rock wool absorbers/traps. You will find that foam products will actually make your situation worse than it is.
 
jimmys69 said:
You should really search the forum for info on rock wool absorbers/traps. You will find that foam products will actually make your situation worse than it is.
Click to expand...

^^^^^ This. Foam is really the icing on the cake, not the cake itself. All the foam will do is lower the high frequencies. Carpets and rugs will essentially do the same thing. Try to build yourself a couple bass traps with (like Jimmy said) rock wool. It could be less expensive than the link you showed us, and it would be a dramatic improvement.
 
Oh btw what are you speakers standing on?!?! Video game cases? LOL!
 
Thanks for all your advice, will definitely try REW and might just purchase some stands to get the speakers wider. The only reason I haven't until now is that I thought that it would be moving the monitors even closer to the corner of the space which I thought would only worsen the situation.
 
I don't know how it's 'supposed' to sound ideally.
Click to expand...
WARNING-NON expert opinion ahead.:)

Good question, and not one that is easily explained.

What it's "supposed" to sound like IS....EXACTLY what ever you are recording. Isn't that what recording is about?

However, when it comes to technically defining CR performance criteria, there are lots of differing opinions in regards to this subject, and believe me, I've asked this question for years. Everyone has their own opinions, and over time, this subject has become VERY technical. Even professional studio designers have differences of opinion. Especially when it comes down to PROVING a given design meets the contract specifications. Even DEFINING the specifications vary from designer to designer. I've even been told by a well known European studio designer, that certain performance criteria used by other designers were impossible to attain.

And there are various published Standards as to what the "ideal" sonic performance of a control room should be. However, for the sake of simplicity, for Home Studio builders, it's actually fairly straight forward. Here are a FEW of the criteria. This subject is WAY too deep for a simple explanation by I'll give it a shot.

1. The room response should be as flat AS POSSIBLE. Not an easy task. And the proof is only attained by TESTING, which in itself can be very frustrating, as interpreting the
data can be complicated. Even if anomaly identification is achieved, translating it into treatment can be difficult as well.

Since most Home studios are in very small rooms, and are usually a one room affair, or even may consist of another space as a vocal booth or live room, achieving a flat room response may be difficult if not impossible to achieve, as room modes in small rooms typically require so much bass trapping, the room becomes dead. That's not to say you can't make it better than a non treated room, but do not expect miracles. In reality, CUBIC FEET is what matters, in as much as it's all about room modes. That's why, in some studios, the control room may be larger than the live room. The reason is.....

2. The TIME DELAY gap in the control room should be longer than in a live room.

In the live room, the Time delay gap is the TIME it takes a source sound to travel to a boundary, reflect, and travel back to a microphone. This time delay manifests itself in what's known as Comb filtering. Comb filtering is what occurs as there is a phase difference in different frequencies between the direct sound arriving at the microphone and those sounds being reflected by boundaries, such as the ceiling, floor, and walls arriving at the mic. There may be many reflections arriving at the mic, all with a delay, and all with respective comb filtering. When comb filtering occurs, it usually is identified as hearing the "room". Most amateur recordings sound amateur BECAUSE the comb filtering gets recorded along with the direct sound.

The Time Delay gap in the Control room is the TIME it takes, for the sound being picked up by a mic in a live room, to travel from the Control Room monitors, past the engineering position, reflect off the side/rear walls and ceiling, and return to the engineering position.

And here is the concept. IF, the Time delay in a Control room is SHORTER, than the time delay in the Live room, the comb filtering in the Control room will MASK the comb filtering occurring in the Live room. When this happens, the engineer can NOT identify comb filtering effects occurring in the live room. Hence, the Time Delay gap in the CR must be longer than in the Live Room in order to HEAR IT!;) Hence the typical CR monitoring geometry on the LONG AXIS of the room. This creates the longest path. However, sidewalls and ceilings also enter the picture. This is why, typically, the side walls and ceiling above the mix position are treated with absorption. And if the rear wall is too close, absorption is used there too.



For newbie home recording enthusiasts, this concept is probably new to you However, I will try to explain in simple terms.

Do this test to understand what COMB FILTERING is and how it manifests itself in a studio. Set up a hand held microphone, plugged into some type of mixer with a Headphone output. Put on a pair of headphones plugged into the mixer/amp(no speakers).
Stand in the middle of a room, and begin speaking. Now, as you are speaking(or singing), walk towards a wall till you almost touch it. Listen to what occurs as you walk. Note, since most Home Studios are in residential rooms with a typical height of 8', a vocalist standing up will use a mic at the height of his mouth, which typically would place a mic within 3' of the ceiling. This is where comb filtering usually affects the signal first, as the time delay gap is so short. Hence, using absorption on the ceiling above a mic. However, sounds returning from a ceiling do not particularly get picked up, depending on the mic being used. However, doing this test will illustrate the effects of comb filtering and what it does to the direct sound field.

3. Trusting your monitors. This is about how well a recording "translates" on other systems and in other rooms/cars/boom boxes/ipods etc etc. This is why "inexperienced" engineers will typically have to playback their recordings on other systems etc. For one, the roiom and monitors that the material was mixed in, either has bad monitors/ bad acoustics, bad monitoring position or a combination, and other anomalies that prevent them from learning to TRUST THEIR SONIC DECISIONS. And THAT is the real criteria. Translation.

I won't pretend i know or can tell you all there is to know about what the sound in a Control Room is "supposed" to sound like. All I can tell you is until your room is treated significantly enough to remove these anomaly's, your engineering position guarantees good L/R separation/ and your monitors tell you the truth, you will NEVER be able to trust your monitors. PERIOD.

Actually, there is so much information on the net, books and other forums, you would be wise to learn as much as you can.


And btw, mixing in an alcove is a BIG mistake. For one, reflections off the close proximity sidewalls of the alcove, will affect the sound from the monitors. In this case, absorption is your friend.


I don't have time to address your room at the moment, but IF...you provide a plan of the room/alcove WITH dimensions...I'll try to provide you with some suggestions.


fitZ
 
That's a sensational bit of writing there fitZ.

You have explained a lot concisely, really appreciate it.

I will at some point PM you a plan of the room and if you have the time to get back to me that would be even better.

Thanks again for your ideas, I'm going to read as much as possible. Cheers, Ste.
 
Total thanks to all for advice, just couldn't believe the amount of writing by Rick. To be honest I still do find it a bit unbelievable that forum users spend their time helping people out when they don't have to. I'm coming from a place where I have nothing of any real value to add to most conversations in terms of knowledge. To me, people spending their time helping is amazing. Wouldn't know where else to go. Can't afford to spend money in a big studio and now after a couple of months learning, I don't think I ever will. Really enjoy the home studio process.
 
I'll second the suggestion of using a system like REW, or its big brother SMAART, to quantify acoustic issues in your room, but it takes a bit of audio savvy to really understand what the measurements mean.
 
fitZ is a hella poster. Nice one

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to RICK FITZPATRICK again.
 
arcadeko said:
fitZ is a hella poster. Nice one
Click to expand...

This is a Hella poster.

hella-hella-california-demotivational-poster-1244956893.webp
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top