How About A Biodiesel Bus For Touring???

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Dogman said:
If bio-diesel is made form shit, why does it cost 50 cents a gallon more than regular diesel?
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Because it's not produced on the same scale that regular diesel is.

ez_willis, you seem to really take offense at this whole idea. I just offered my opinion about the reason it is being put forth as a viable alternative... so we can turn our focus away from foreign oil and start relying on ourselves. I don't care if you agree with this, or care (which it sounds like you do), that's why biodiesel is being looked at, not for its ecological benefits other than one source being recycled waste.

ez_willis said:
Brilliant! What's it take to remove hydrogen from methane, exactly?
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Similar from removing the hydrogen from any hydrocarbon, which is the end result in any form of combustion. Hydrocarbon molecules are usually locked together with carbon and oxygen, and in a chemical reaction those are released in the form of greenhouse gasses like carbon dioxide and carbon monoxide. The point of a hydrogen fuel cell is to remove the hydrogen without the release of these biproducts. The problem is how efficient the removal process is. It's a current problem, but it's not going to get solved by ignoring it as a solution. I personally think the global warming issue is blown out of proportion and it's just mankind's way of assuming he has control over everything, even the bad. I hear you shooting down a lot in this thread, I'm interested in your views on the issue.
 
heroics321 said:
I'm interested in your views on the issue.
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Go to the Cave, and I'll tell you all about 'em.

We should let these guys get back to talking about headphones.
 
Farview said:
How many man-hours are we wasting with the entire tour held up for 25 minutes to gas up?

Do you get the same MPG with biodiesel?
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Actually, no man hours are wasted. How many bands on the road stop for less than 25 minutes a day anyhow? I really don't care whether people wanted to do this kind of thing or not. I was merely pointing out my experiences with it since it is the topic of this thread. I have no idea about the mileage either. All I do know is that this last band that came through said they had saved thousands of dollars already on this tour by using their method. For bands living from show to show, this could make a huge difference.
 
xstatic said:
Actually, no man hours are wasted. How many bands on the road stop for less than 25 minutes a day anyhow? I really don't care whether people wanted to do this kind of thing or not. I was merely pointing out my experiences with it since it is the topic of this thread. I have no idea about the mileage either. All I do know is that this last band that came through said they had saved thousands of dollars already on this tour by using their method. For bands living from show to show, this could make a huge difference.
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I wasn't trying to start an argument. I checked into this because I have a lot of diesel vehicles. I realized that, after factoring in my time, it was more expensive than just buying the real thing.

I was asking about the fuel mileage because I don't know. The E85 gas that they have in rural Illinois is a neat idea until you factor in the fact that your gas mileage drops by 20%. So now you're going through more of it.


The biggest barrier to finding an alternative to oil is finding and alternative that has as much energy in as small a package for the same price.
 
ez_willis said:
Go to the Cave, and I'll tell you all about 'em.
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If I listened to every strange man that told me to join him in the cave...
 
Hydrogen is just a energy delivery system. It's not a source of energy. Electric power is hugely more efficient than fuel cells or combustion engines and there are LOTS of ways to produce electricity cleanly. All we need are better batteries and everything will go electric.
 
TNO said:
Hydrogen is just a energy delivery system. It's not a source of energy.
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I think you got that backwords, Or maybe you just can"t put your thoughts into words that well? (I also have that problem sometimes)

It"s like saying that "Gasoline" is not a source of energy, If that is true then what do Gas Generators run off of? The Generator is the Energy delivery system and the gas is the Fuel which is the source of the Energy (all Types of energy being heat, Compression from combustion , Light ect).....

In the case of Hydrogen ,The Fuel cell is the energy delivery system were the Hydrogen is the Fuel and together they create electricity....Hydrogen can create energy even without a Fuel cell ,What do you think the Sun is or the Stars ?? Just big balls of Burning Hydrogen which in turn create heat energy, Radiation, Light and other forms of energy which without we wouldn"t exist .......


:)
 
There is also hydrogen burning ICE's as well as the fuel cell. The engine itself is not really a big deal, what is a big deal is how to store the h2 since it has such a small molecule. The current storage schemes all involve a fairly radioactive matrix which will never be street legal so they have to sort that business out before even considering bring this to market
 
Yeah, I'm not very good at putting the ol' thoughts into words. I'll let others do it for me:

The Hydrogen Economy isn't Coming Soon
May 14, 2005 8:00 AM -

hydrogen.jpgIn the race for the replacement of fossil fuels, a lot of people are betting on hydrogen. Others consider it a shill for the pro-nukes, since lots of electricity can be used to make it from water. The hydrogen is really not a fuel, but is a transfer medium to get the energy from the nuclear plant to your car.

A new report throws a lot of cold oxidized hydrogen on the whole idea.

The researchers point out in an upcoming paper to be published in June, the following problems with hydrogen:


-Fuel cells cost too much to build and have short operating lifetimes.

"Fuel cells wear out at least five times faster than internal combustion engines. If I buy a new car, I expect it to last, say, 10 years, which equates to about 3,000 hours of driving time. If my fuel cell only lasts 1,000 hours, you can see that's not very practical."

"A fuel-cell car built with today's technology would cost about $250,000, but you would have no place to fill up the tank,"

Because hydrogen is so light, it is very expensive to transport and store-there is not much energy density to it. Fill a balloon with it- it will be deflated in hours, the molecule is so small that it leaks out very easily.

Futurepundit points out that superconductor technology and battery efficiency are improving faster than fuel cells, and that direct transfer of electric vehicles wmakes a lot more sense. "Hydrogen's supporting technologies will compete with tomorrow's batteries, superconductors, and other energy technologies. Those competing technologies will be delivering benefits decades before hydrogen begins to do so" ::Futurepundit by [LA]
 
I think it's a great idea, but based on what we used to eat when I toured full time, I think the bus could have easily run on methane! ;)
 
veggie oil isn't always cheaper, and i doubt anybody that is choosing biodiesel only cares about the monetary benefits.
 
Didnt read everything but I coulda sworn research just showed that these engines dont last long and tend to brake down very shortly.

Maybe a rumour maybe true?
 
Not to be a buzzkill, but in California, the minute you put the oil in your engine it becomes fuel and you owe 18 cents per gallon excise taxes.

If the person selling the oil is selling it as a fuel, they are responsible for remitting payment to the state. Otherwise, the person "converting" the vegetable (or other) oil by placing it in the vehicle is responsible for the tax.
 
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