Home Recording vs. Pro Studio Recording

  • Thread starter Thread starter chessparov
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One more thing. We should define home studio. I wouldn't call a extra bedroom with a four track, a couple 57's, and cubase or similar a studio. More like a place to write and rehearse. A studio in my mind would at least consist of a control room that is acousticly accurate, and at least one lrg room with consideration for drums and vocals, and preferably a couple iso rooms. This can done in a basement or out building on your property. That to me is a home studio.
 
nwsoundman said:
Spend what ever you like as long you are happy doing what you do with what you buy. I have thousands of dollars in gear that I don't get a return on but I am happy useing it even if I use it for free (not charging a dime to the artists).

As far as the eng. being more important than the gear thats not true to some extent. You just can't pull great tone out of your ass like most people think. The soundman or recording eng. can't take crap and turn it to gold every time.

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What you get in return for your music does not have to be money, it could be personal satisfaction.

I would bet an awesome engineer could make a recording sound better with crappy gear, than a crappy engineer with awsome gear. Just the same as if a person owns a Fender Strat, does not mean that he can play music like Eric Clapton, SRV, etc.

On another note...

nwsoundman I love your statement:

"The soundman or recording eng. can't take crap and turn it to gold every time."

This is true about gear, but I think it applies even more to the talent he is recording (or lack thereof). When I started recording other people I was so excited, especially when I started getting good sounds from the recordings. When I showed it to a local musician he said, "the recording was good, but you can't polish a turd." So to an engineer, not only is it vital to have good gear but it is equally important to have good talent to make a project sound enjoyable.
 
chessparov said:
I wonder how often recording at a "pro" studio is like leaving your car for repairs at a "pro" auto repair shop. Most novice home recorders like me are not qualified to judge how much value we're receiving for the $ spent-maybe you end up paying for unnecessary (sonic) repairs!
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Yes!

Even more on point is that you may go to a smaller local "pro" studio with decent equipment, but the pros there just aren't very good. Be it from lack of experience or just ignorance of your style of music. And even then you can't predict the results.

Reminds me of many moons ago when my metal band first recorded in a "pro-home studio." The engineer was a friend of a band member, was a grammy-nominated polka accordionist, and had set up a pro studio in his basement: control room, proper sound treatment, high end equipment. He let us record there for free. We got a good demo as a result of a quick and dirty two day session.

Around the same time, a friend of mine's metal band paid for a "pro" studio. They spent weeks in it for their indie release.

At the end of the day, the sound quality and tone on their release was not as good as the one done by the polka buddy.


Point being, it can be difficult to determine the returns on a pro studio especially if you are strapped for cash. Don't count on your local "pro" studio to dramatically increase the quality of your home recorded demo.
 
nwsoundman said:
One more thing. We should define home studio. I wouldn't call a extra bedroom with a four track, a couple 57's, and cubase or similar a studio. More like a place to write and rehearse. A studio in my mind would at least consist of a control room that is acousticly accurate, and at least one lrg room with consideration for drums and vocals, and preferably a couple iso rooms. This can done in a basement or out building on your property. That to me is a home studio.
Click to expand...

That definition doesn't fit with what most others consider to be "home" studios.;)
 
"Even more on point is that you may go to a smaller local "pro" studio with decent equipment, but the pros there just aren't very good. Be it from lack of experience or just ignorance of your style of music. And even then you can't predict the results. "

This is very true. My band went up to Northern California to record a high quality "demo" at a smaller local "pro" studio. The equipment was decent. We had heard a lot of quality demos come out of this guy's home studio. My singer meet him at a bar and he offered to let us record for very little money. Apparently a third of the regular price.

But when it comes time to record my guitar parts, the producer wanted me to try all these goofy effects and cheesy delays. We wanted a "less is more" recording. Raw in the sense of Iggy Pop, early Bowie, the Clash, etc. So the session goes well, (the producer is into Kenny Loggins- not the Clash) and I go home.

Two weeks later, my singer goes over to help him complete the final mix. They both get stoned out of their brains and we end up with this beyond riduclous Iggy Pop meets Richard Marx sound. Complete with Kenny G sax solo. My bass guitar was barely in the mix.

I hope never to experience this kind of situation again. So i'd rather stick with my own home demos or pay the bigger money for quality production.
 
I totally agree with you guys, fish, bbb, necro. 8 years ago I was in this hardcore band and went to a small but very "pro" studio with really nice sounding rooms and class A gear. The kind of music we were doing was obviously loud and agressive with the guitar waaay out front. Well we finish the mixdown (on NS10s) and it turns out the vocals are waaay out front and the guitar and bass all the way back. He tells us thats the way its supposed to be-the vocals should always be louder than the music. I was like yeah but we're not doing ballads here....Anyway, mixing is like arranging and conducting, you have to know the music, genre, sytle etc. well to do it properly. Aside from techincal skill if you dont know the style and substyles in the genre then the result is going to be shit. I heard this punk band with a pantera guitar sound and a very prominent click on the bass drum...very metal sounding, and totally wrong for the band. In this sense, homrec people know their music best and even if they dont achieve class A sound quality they dont make gross errors in the sound. (If they are at any level of proficiency).
 
Alright, I better stick my oar in and give my view from a "pro studio" (with the usual whatever the hell that might mean disclaimer) perspective.

In the first place, I NEVER see home vs pro studio as a "them vs us" kind off thing, in fact quite the opposite.
If a "pro" setup moans that home recording has undermined their business, tough. I don't feel any pitty for them. If they are good, they would get business. If they don't produce anything that's significantly better than anyone can do at home, they shouldn't be in the business in the first place. A studio is only as good as the work it turns out - good studios are busy and earn money, and will continue doing so even if every musician had his / her home recording gear, simply because they have the right combination of skills and gear.

Damn I'm ruthless today! But I see one of the big advantages of the whole homerecording capability as:- it stuffed a bunch of worthless studios, which gave good places and people bad reps.

If you enjoy recording, then record away! Do it at home, get good at it. Its great fun to be creative. Get to know your local studios, find one you like, take your stuff to them, ask engineers for their opinions. I really don't know anyone who wouldn't take the time to listen to a bit of music and give some advise.

Now for the other side. 99% of the people I record are pro's, some of them I recorded first decades ago! Their music is their living, it has to be right, or they don't earn anything. A lot of them have home recording equipment, varying from MIDI gear and a DAW to full blown home studios (and I mean full blown!, what about a Neve Legend and 2 2" machines?).
So, how do we work together? Its all a question of strengths and weaknesses, but over time, and with the increasing proficiency and quality of home recording gear, you could say we've established a pattern.
The 'normal' scenario would go as follows:
We have a pre- production meeting. The artist(s) brings home recorded ideas, to whatever level they have been worked out.
We then split stuff into can-do-at-home /gotta-do-in-the-studio.
MIDI stuff? program it at home. You don't need a studio for that if you have the gear. Make your loops/ patches etc at home, sort out the rythm at home, put a scratch vocal on it at home.
We get it back into the studio, we'll put it all to disk properly, and start putting on those things someone cannot do at home, like live drums, acoustic instruments, vocals etc. If wanted, we'll transfer all date back onto the artist(s) gear, so they can go home and play around with it, prior to more studio time for mixing.

Of cause this is an ideal scenario, and used with regular clients. But I, and many of my collegues, really PREFER it if someone comes in with a lot done at home already. It allows me to understand what a customer is looking for, I can do my job much better.

I suppose that was a lot of words to say that there is no clear line of can and cannot, and definately no should or shouldn't. Use common sence, use your money effectively, and above all, remain objectives regarding your capabilities.
If you need to go into a pro environment, co-operation is the key.
 
Insightful sjoko,

It's very disappointing when you spend money for a "professional studio" and the results are crappy. I am a real newbie to recording, but already I've produced stuff, in less than ideal acoustic environments, that is superior to stuff that was done in a very nice "pro" studio. Is my stuff all that great? No it just sucks less than the pro studio stuff. I got into this because I want to produce decent sounding stuff, and because the pursuit of the elusive quality recordings is going to be a big part of the fun.

I'm looking into getting my hands on a old house right now. I want to turn it into a home studio.

Taylor

sjoko BTW thanks for the mic stand and blankets tip. It made an incredible difference in the sound guality of my tracking.
 
I'm going to steer clear from whats better pro VS home recording as I've said my share on that but I wanted to make some remarks here on others posts.

When I work I dont allow Drugs or alcohol in the recording room.
If a musician wants to get high then its his problem and I dont say a thing as long as he pays in time.....
If I work with another engineer or a assitant and they drink
or do drugs near me I'll put a stop to it at once !.
Why do you guys allow a engineer whom you are paying for to
do drugs? or get drunk? a mystery to me..............


If you are the paying client you have to do several things.

1. Make sure the engineer knows in advance what you are looking for. Bring a cd of a different artist with the sound you are looking for. No engineer can guess what you want.
This guy tells me " No no it's all wrong I need more balls"... so I pump the low end..." No no no...I need more hmmm guts...
So I pump the mids....."No no no......" by now I'm pulling my hair out...by mistake my elbow moves the return of the reverb that has alot of high freq content ont he board...."Thats it !!! he screams...." ...........................@%$&%&%@&................
Bring a cd and say I like this guitar sound can you help me achive it etc...

2. Dot be so forgiving and let your music that you are paying for go to the dumps just becuase the engineer says it should sound that way...I'm NOT saying dont listen to him. I'm saying coaperate
with him. Tell him your not happy. Explain why. Make sure he explains why you are wrong before you except his way.
If he cant come up with an explanation, or make you feel it in your guts, dont go his way....insist on your way but !!!!!
A BIG BUT..... you had better take responsability afterwards to the
result and not blame him.
Of course if the engineer can't bring results in the first place youre in the wrong place....go to #3

3. Dont choose a studio by its looks or price (high or low).
Go there...talk to the engineer. Does he listen? is he acomedating? does he give you the time of day? has he ever done that style of music before? Can you hear a sample?
Your paying a lot of money !!! you deserve to ask questions and hear results before !!!!! If they dont do any of the above it's time
to go else where. Do you guys buy gear with out hearing it first ?!?!?...I hope not !.

4. Dont bug on the phone !!!!! it's not the time and place to ask questions. Ask if you must use the phone, when can you speak with out feeling pressured. or is there somebody there to answer your basic questions about the place and format transfer etc.....

5. Tell them you want to meet the engineer who is going to work with you. WARNING !!!! BUZZZZ !!!!. ?They might want to dump on you the assistant engineer who they dont let near the consoule unless its a production for the local schools first grade show...
This could be a good thing as he will go out of his way to help. In that case insist in bringing in the top engineer every now and then to make sure the project is going in the right direction.
It can be a bad thing Does he know what he is doing?...
ASK...MEET....QUESTION....RESEARCH.

If the engineer does what he should and it still stinks....does that mean the studio sucks? or that perhaps you have messed up with your bad playing? bad attitude? sloppy homework?.....
Responsabilty is to be taken by all and not dumped in the wrong direction !.
 
Youre right Shailat but when youre a kid, young and impressionable, trying to point out what things should sound like ( ...back in 93 before the homerec age and the internet was upon us) when a seemingly more experienced engineer tells you its good, you go along. The point is that things may be subjective but a good engineer will be aware of music styles and know how to get a popular sound in a given style. There are only a handful of dif sounds in metal or hardcore at any given time (or pop for that matter). A competent engineer will know what to do. I had a situation where he was mixing vocals like they were ballad vocals. Even after correcting and getting things more along the lines we anticipated, things didnt come togeather. Everything was too out of whack. The drums had too much reverb, the vocals were too wet, the guitar didnt have enough compression and was missing the low mids. That was one experience, I had several others with engineers who were simply ignorant of norms in genres and subgenres of music. Theres a reason why a studio will get a reputation for producing a given style of music well. Bec few are equally comfortable in every genre, especially when it comes down to getting nuances right. Anyway, my first project on my own several years ago with cool edit 96 was miles ahead of anything I did with my bands in studios.
 
Just one litle thing.
If you, as a customer, pay for studio time and an engineer, YOU call the shots, its your call to explain clearly what you want to hear (as long as you stay within the realm of reality).
This is where very often the problem lays. Before you go into a studio, you have to ask yourself a number of questions, and be brutally honest with yourselves:
1. Do I know what I want.
2. Can I express exactly what I want to achieve.
3. Can I get the best out of the studio time I am paying for.
If you cannot answer these 3 questions positively, perhaps you need to find a producer to get the best out of yourself and your studio time.
 
Thanks everybody for their viewpoints, the educational value of this thread
exceeded my expectations. Using myself as an example, and in view of
my limitations as a recordist, the main value of home recording is as a
form of "rehearsal" to get prepared for the pro studio "performance".
Years ago when I recorded my only (thus far) demo for serious distribution,
it was very intimidating for me to get across any production ideas as it
was brand new to me, and the owner/engineer seemed to be good.
Other than nostaligia value, however, between my less than stellar vocal
performance and the cheesy production it has a certain cringe factor now.

To save money in the studio, maybe the bands of today should pay more
attention to how the classic labels like Sun and Chess recorded,
where they typically got a great sound with everybody recorded/played
at one time, within 2 or 3 takes as a result of their rehearsing.
What do you guys think?
 
chessparov said:

To save money in the studio, maybe the bands of today should pay more attention to how the classic labels like Sun and Chess recorded, where they typically got a great sound with everybody recorded/played at one time, within 2 or 3 takes as a result of their rehearsing. What do you guys think?
Click to expand...

This is a very good money saving idea, but you better have good isolation on the instruments, or else the whole band will have to keep playing the song over and over until EVERYONE is satisfied with their own parts. The isolation will allow someone to go back and re-record all or part of a track without having ghost images of the old part from microphone bleed-over on other tracks. Sometimes this method can be just as expensive as modern tracking techniques... especially if the drummer can get his part right.
 
Listen to Sun and Chess recordings now, preferably the originals, prior to digital re-mastering. Its no where near up to any standard which would be acceptable today. For its time it was good, but for the MUSIC, the sound quality was never very good to start with.
 
sjoko, could you tell I'm a HUGE Sun/Chess fan? So for me, their
sound may not be considered great by "today's standards",
however, for this listener (and many others) they rocked the
house! And tons of these albums sell today and inspire present
day rock and blues musicians to do their best.

Anyway, we can take present technology and still do "live"
studio recordings, as appropriate, a lot easier than the
old labels ever could or am I missing your point?
 
No, you're right! I love that stuff as well.
What sets it aside is very simple. Damn good musicians, damn good writing.
That's the same today - you get that kind of people and you're in business, nothing better than tracking them live.
If you listen for instant to the song Bittersweet at http://www.mp3.com/uru , that was not even ment to be a recording, just a live take at rehearsals, then we did one extra guitar part and dubbed the backing vocals in, that's all.

Good song and good musicians always win :)
 
I find many people ignore the possiblity of combining home and pro studios in a single project.

If your realy serious about your music and you have little money in your pocket (that must cover everybody) think about this option.

A good recording of a drum kit is #1 on my list. Drums cover almost every aspect including melody in a song. It ranges from the lowest freq's to the highest and......it's a bitch to record....

Some pro studios are well known for their drum rooms and people all over fly in just to record drums and take the tracks with them to a different place.
Find a good local studio with a drum sound and after your drummer has rehearsed his ass off (with a click as well) go down and record Drum tracks. The difference between homerecorded and studio recorded tracks are a world apart and it will push your material into a new realm !. Scotty beam us up....

Record Bass (after you have a new set of strings, eliminated the buzzes and other problems. Think about renting a top notch pre for a day and record your bass directly into your multitrack.
All bass amp micers should be put into straitjackets unless it is a wionderfull room and wonderfull amp and it's a full moon...
(those three have happend 2 times in the past 50 years....)

Now your song is with a excellent foundation and you have saved
a lot of money. Even if you decide to record the rest at home you still have a much better sound I gaurentee !.

If you cant afford to mix in a studio then at least Hire a good engineer to mix you songs. Tell him about your gear and he might be able to bring some gear himself (try to hire a engineer who works at a studio and you get better chances of him bringing gear over for free.....).

If you dont even own a basic good mic then Rent one for 2 days.
Dont record your vocals with a sm57 just becuase that is what you own !!! or becuase you read it on the net how the great band
called "The Hix Mixis" used one on vocals and pissed on the world.

With common sense and sqeezing the budget a little you can have a nice product if you combine the two type of studios instead of of deciding one or the other.

I see quite a few people doing it and getting some pleasing results.
 
This thread has touched on so many different aspects it difficult to figure out where to start. :)

1) I think for a demo you can create it at your own studio. It is in fact a "demo". It is created to get attention for the artist, and to represent their potential. If a label likes the the artist, they will put up the financial backing (of course they will make it recoupable :) ), then it is time to go into the "pro-studio" to do the project correctly.

2) In terms of Home vs Pro, it depends on the level of the people doing the production, arranging, and engineering (at home or at the studio).

3) It also depends on the type of music you are creating.

I make "House tracks". So, I can do it all at my studio, or at one of the studios of other Producer/DJ's I spin with in this city. Or I can do all the necessary production, then send it overseas to one of my associates overseas. I let them "tweak" the song a bit, then they FedEx it back here to the US.

I think that dance/house music is easier to "do" than other music. I am fortunate enough to have a decent-to-good home studio. My "ears" and production knowledge are definitely getting better. Plus, I can go down to multiple clubs here in Chi-town to see how the music will sound at variuos venues. And...I can play it in my live mixes at the club to see the crowds reaction to the song (before I get it pressed to wax ;) ).

4) I would, however, suggest that individuals send their music to get mastered at a reputable mastering house. They can do wonders to help fatten your sound (if that is what you are looking for...).

5) You can save a sh*tload of money by getting the majority of your pre-production done at home.

6) If you are going to use a Pro-studio take in music that you want your music to somewhat sound like. The engineer or producer cannot read your mind.

7) You should also use an engineer that works on the format of music you are creating.

8) If you are paying for professionally services, make sure you leave out of that studio with the music sounding the way YOU want it to sound. Remember...It's your money, they are working for you. You will be pissed off, if you spend a couple of G's ($2,000), and you are unhappy with the finished product.

To reiterate, it really just depends on your skill level/knowledge and equipment. ;)

spin
 
Have you guys heard any professional sounding demos where a drum
machine was used and/or a synth keyboard was used for bass sounds,
etc.? For the lone singer/songwriter this seems to be popular.
 
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