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dobro
Well-known member
I went through most of this thread last night with soundchaser getting upset with the very sensible stuff that Massive was saying and Miroslav going on endlessly with some guy who lost his patience. Maybe the problem's the thread. ("Nobody will understand or accept what anybody else says in this thread." lol)
BroKen_H
Re-member
Have to agree with the comments about Stereo Imaging plugs. One comes stock with the Reason "Mastering Suite" and I played with it and fiddled with it and tried really hard to make it sound good, and then I bypassed it, and it sounded good! 
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RAMI
Guest
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gregoryg
New member
I was saying that the specific tools within the mastering plug in (e.g., compressor, limiters, exciters, EQ, reverb) are going to sound different than the ones that exist in the DAW, just as any of these individual tools will sound different than one another (regardless of how they are packaged). A compressor from one manufacturer will sound different from a compressor from another. (I understand that you know this already). As far as how they are used together, I was saying that the interface of a bundled "mastering plug in" is often very different than using the tools individual as they come. But I never said it was easier or harder. Just different. Take it or leave it.
In my original post about mastering within Studio One Pro, I was simply pointing out that the mastering plug ins will work within the suite, if a user so chooses to use them. I think we've gotten down to the real point though, that it is not really about mastering plug ins, how they work or how they sound, it really is more a desire for users of this forum to distance themselves from "mastering plug ins" so as to illustrate knowledge of the individual tools themselves, so as to not look like a newb who would stoop to the level of using something such as Ozone, which is fine. To each his or her own. They're out there if you want to use them, and they are easitly accessed from withint the Studio One Pro mastering suite. That's all
Steenamaroo
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I use the plugins that I choose to use. I choose them because they do what I want and I like them.
I've used ozone and found that it didn't offer anything that my current plugins won't do, or anything additional that I was interested in.
The idea of it being marketed towards, or appealing to, noobs has nothing to do with my decision not to use it, but nice try.
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gregoryg
New member
I'm talking about someone who does it professionally and makes a living from it. Come on, are we going to stoop to "semantics" now? You know exactly what I mean.
Nobody's trying to make anyone "feel ashamed" about anything. If you feel that, that's on you, not me. I said at least twice, if not more, that the plug-ins in these "Mastering Suites" are NO BETTER AND NO WORSE than any other plug-ins, so there's no reason to get so defensive about the whole thing.
There's no bad vibes here. We're just disagreeing a bit, what's the big deal? In fact, you had no problem saying "I disagree with this..." and then you went on to explain why. I had no problem with it either. But then, when someone disagreed with your disagreement, you came back with "This thread has gotten weird" or whatever. I don't get that.
My main point is was this: These "mastering suites" are just a bunch of tools bundled together. How is it that someone who chooses to use any of the hundreds of other plug-ins out there is supposedly "limiting themselves", while someone who chooses to only use the tools that come in this one bundle isn't "limiting themselves"? Seems to me it's the complete other way around. Only one person here suggested that other people are limiting themselves, and it happens to be the only person who really is limiting themself, strangely enough.
Use whatever you want, man. It's your music. But I'm beginning to think people have trouble remembering how internet discussion forums are supposed to work. Sometimes people disagree, big frickin' deal. That doesn't mean there's a lack of respect, it's just a bunch of opinions. If one person can say "I disagree with this....", then that same person shouldn't complain when someone else disagrees with them. Are we a bunch of 10 year olds or something? Just chill out about it. Nobody's insulting or trying to make anyone "feel ashamed".
I'm actually pretty calm about the whole thing. I'm fine with you disagreeing with me. I certainly never "complained" that you disagreed with me. The sad thing is that we are actually kind of arguing the same point, but whatever. I need to move on.
BroKen_H
Re-member
In addition, the chain will make a difference. EQ before compression and EQ after compression makes a difference in the sound. There are so many variables that It's almost impossible to nail down ONE thing you use, or ONE chain of events that makes your music sound like it does. I like some songs with Density Mk III. I like some songs with Onxy Tube Limiter. I like some songs with the stock limiter in Reason. I have about a dozen different compressors (I know it's not a lot, yet) and sometimes I will do a large comp on the bus and little else, and sometimes I comp everything individually and have extremely small comp (or even none) at the end. Sometimes hyping the high end before compression sounds best, sometimes between comp and limit...
Each song is like a different child. You give them all the same love, but each is different enough that they need their own individual correction methods. Some of my songs are in permanent time out.
Each song is like a different child. You give them all the same love, but each is different enough that they need their own individual correction methods. Some of my songs are in permanent time out.
Steenamaroo
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I don't think we are, but it's a handy way out.
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RAMI
Guest
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gregoryg
New member
I use the plugins that I choose to use. I choose them because they do what I want and I like them.
I've used ozone and found that it didn't offer anything that my current plugins won't do, or anything additional that I was interested in.
The idea of it being marketed towards, or appealing to, noobs has nothing to do with my decision not to use it, but nice try.
I also dislike baseball. There's no real condescension involved with that either.
Oh, I was not talking about you. I was saying in general, there is a sense to discount a product such as Ozone because Ozone = n00b, which I think you agreed with earlier (?). But yeah, I was not accusing you personally of blindly doing that without ever trying the product. I don't even know you.
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Yes you do, because you're contradicting yourself big time. Have a good one.
Where did I do that?
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I was talking to RAMI.
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RAMI
Guest
I'm not going to point out the obvious. You need to move on. I know I am.
Steenamaroo
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I agreed that there's a strong correlation between products like that and noobs, but it's not always the case and it wouldn't be a reason for my decision to use, or not use, a plugin or suite.
Fair enough.
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gregoryg
New member
Hey Steenamaroo, it looks like you've responded to a couple of my posts that were responses to RAMI and mistook them to be directed toward our (your's and my) side discussion. Anyway, I realize things get lost in text translation, but I'm not arguing with you here. Not sure how or why it seems to be going that way but I would like to nip it in the bud before it gets too far off track.
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gregoryg
New member
I'm not going to point out the obvious. You need to move on. I know I am.
Ok, well you're not really giving me much to work with here, just kind of tossing out accusations and then not really providing any examples, which makes it hard for me to address whatever it is I said that was contradictory. I imagine at this point it doesn't really matter though.
dobro
Well-known member
Each song is like a different child. You give them all the same love, but each is different enough that they need their own individual correction methods. Some of my songs are in permanent time out.
Yeah, I've been there. It's life telling you something about that tune. You should listen.
ShanPeyton
Member
It's called mastering for a reason. 
I am currently trying to find a polite way to tell my friend not to master our album in Ozone. It's just hard becasue he is so passionate and compettive i feel like it will be a crappy conversation. I think though i have a plan. I have another friend with greats ears, the proper environment and will do it for 30 bucks a song. I may get him to do one song and have my other friend, the ozone guy, A-B the two masters and see what he thinks.
In the end, home mastering is never really a good idea.
I am currently trying to find a polite way to tell my friend not to master our album in Ozone. It's just hard becasue he is so passionate and compettive i feel like it will be a crappy conversation. I think though i have a plan. I have another friend with greats ears, the proper environment and will do it for 30 bucks a song. I may get him to do one song and have my other friend, the ozone guy, A-B the two masters and see what he thinks.
In the end, home mastering is never really a good idea.
Chili
Site Moderator
I did one of my CDs at home. It came out good, but there is still some translation issues with it, so I'm not completely happy. I have since converted to the notion that a separate mastering studio is the best way to go to remove the inadequacies of the home studio; poor monitors, poor room, different ears, etc. Then it's just a matter of whether my crappy tunes are worth spending money on....
But for quick jobs and posting stuff up here, I'll run my mixes through Wavelab/Ozone.
ShanPeyton
Member
oh, For sure. In that regard i see no real harm. I won't dispute that it is entirely up to the individual either. I am guilty of coloring some mixes with a limiter and generic "mastering plugs" for the sake of just posting it up. Just after hearing what my buddy did with ozone it made me cringe a little.
dobro
Well-known member
I used to think that. Now I think 'home mastering is never the best idea'.
I've had stuff mastered and the difference between the before and after is so obvious that it's a no brainer that if you have the money, get somebody who knows what they're doing to master it.
On the other hand...
I'm at the stage where I'll take a mix as far as it can go by tweaking individual tracks, and then I'll go to the master buss and make everything sound just that little bit better with a touch of EQ or compression. That's legitimate. I don't even think of it as mastering anymore - I think of it as global mixing - I make decisions about the mix globally, on the master buss. The question I've got with my next album is whether, since I've closed the distance between what my mix and the mastered mix sounds like, it's still worth four or five hundred dollars to get the inevitable improvement I will get by sending the album to a reputable mastering house. It's that law of diminishing returns thing.