Hip Hop Drum Recording

[tbuck92]

Hey guys,
I'm working on a hip hop project with a few friends right now and I'd like to start moving away from programmed drums and move to real drum recordings, since everything else record is done with real instruments. However I've tried it a few times with our drummer and it just doesn't fill the sound field as much as heavy thumping hip hop drum samples... It seems like the real drums lack the "dirtyness" of the sampled drums too (not like they sound bad at all, just doesn't suit the genre).... Is there any Plugs or techniques involving EQ and Comps to get a similar sound? Or should i blend/trigger the real drums? Both?

Thanks!

 

[RAMI]

You will probably have to expirement with a few ideas. Blending, like you suggested, might be a good solution.

But also, it could just be that you'll have to process the drums the same way samples are already processed. You'll almost defintely have to do more EQ'ing than you would need to do to a sample. But you'll also have to play with compression, different reverbs, even distortion, etc....

Another thought is that maybe you're inventing a new "sound": Hip with REAL instruments. You might just be so used to the over-the-top production of most commercial hip-hop music and it might just take you a while to get used to the sound of real drums in hip-hop. Funny thing is, many hip-hop grooves and loops are directly lifted off old James Brown (and others) records which were recorded 40+ years ago.

I remember when Prince came out with "Kiss". That song has no bass giotar or bass instrument of any kind. The record company thought he was joking, but he insisted on releasing it exactly the way it sounded on the demo. Turned into one of his biggest hits, and was partly responsible breaking through the over-production barrier of the 80's and early 90's. So sometimes it takes time to get used to a new sound. But you might be the pioneer for something new. Lord knows rap music in general needs something new.

 

[Beat Poet]

I don't know a great deal of hip hop, but aren't live drums just usually reserved for live shows? To get more of a banging sound out live drums, you'll need the drummer to balance the kit better (smack the kick & snare, caress the cymbals), use a snare with a tonal range close to what you're looking for and if neither of those two work, back up the kit with samples. Tap me up even if you're looking for a different live drum sound.

 

[grimtraveller]

Another thought is that maybe you're inventing a new "sound": Hip with REAL instruments. You might just be so used to the over-the-top production of most commercial hip-hop music and it might just take you a while to get used to the sound of real drums in hip-hop.

Think about this ^^^^^^^
If the sound of hip hop is part of what makes it, then using an acoustic kit and trying to make it sound like an acoustic kit that has been processed over a 20 year period to sound like it does now in much of the genre seems a little backward in coming forward. It sort of reminds me of those EMI engineers that could make pianos sound like guitars and guitars sound like pianos. But it drove them crazy !
I think that sometimes it's of great benefit to take a massive leap of imagination and depart from the status quo. I've done about 4 songs that involve rapping and the instruments banging away are all acoustic or electric. It doesn't sound like hip hop, to be sure. But then, it's not meant to. It's called flavouring......
That said, look do a search for rappers that have recorded in a jazz framework with real drummers. Or jazzers that include rappers in some their recordings.

 

[heatmiser]

Hey guys,
I'm working on a hip hop project with a few friends right now and I'd like to start moving away from programmed drums and move to real drum recordings, since everything else record is done with real instruments. However I've tried it a few times with our drummer and it just doesn't fill the sound field as much as heavy thumping hip hop drum samples... It seems like the real drums lack the "dirtyness" of the sampled drums too (not like they sound bad at all, just doesn't suit the genre).... Is there any Plugs or techniques involving EQ and Comps to get a similar sound? Or should i blend/trigger the real drums? Both?

Thanks!

I've been trying to do more or less the same thing for the last year or so, and still it eludes me.

Its been done effectively by various acts for some time. The Roots have that kick ass drummer and the Beastie Boys got that big, dirty drum sound going throughout the Check Your Head and Ill Communication period using acoustic drums a lot of the time.

I've played around endlessly with EQ, compression, reverb and distortion but never really come too close. The tracks still sound too clean and plain. If you ever figure this out - please let me know - I will be forever in your debt.

 

[grimtraveller]

I've been trying to do more or less the same thing for the last year or so, and still it eludes me.


I've played around endlessly with EQ, compression, reverb and distortion but never really come too close. The tracks still sound too clean and plain. If you ever figure this out - please let me know - I will be forever in your debt.

Some years back, I was doing a track with a reggae feel to the drums and bass, though nothing else. At the time, I was reading about how the Beatles on "Tomorrow never knows" in 1966 got a really different drum sound to anything they'd previously had and the author said something about the "ocean bed quivering echo" or something like that. Maybe I read it wrong but it started a train of thought in my head.
When my mate and I were doing the track {"First Course"}, I thought I'd put the bass drum through a distortion pedal. In those days I only recorded mono drums but I used 3 mics through a small mic mixer - 2 as overheads, one for the bass drum. Fed the bass drum via a Zoom FX box and the distortion just seemed to overpower everything. It obviously caught the whole drum but the distorted bleed was more intense than what came through the overheads. After we'd done the take, I got my friend to do a second drum take without any effects, but just overdriven {I was using an 8 track cassette portastudio} and because it was near identical, I overlaid one take on top of the other then I bounced them to one track. Man, was it dirty ! It sounded saturated and although it failed utterly in my original thought of having a deep, reverb ~ y bass drum, it was a drum sound I'd never had before and I really liked it. I might even have bounced the bounce for more dirt.
I'm not sure if any of that makes for anything useful but it might be a useful start point, tracking to tape and transfering it, if you know anyone with a portastudio. However it turns out, believe me, it won't be clean.

 

[heatmiser]

I'm not sure if any of that makes for anything useful but it might be a useful start point, tracking to tape and transfering it, if you know anyone with a portastudio. However it turns out, believe me, it won't be clean.

Thanks Grim. I don't know exactly what the OP is going for as hip hop drums can take on a lot of different forms. In my case, I am very specifically interested in that early '90's sound from like Cypress Hill, Public Enemy, the Black Sheep, etc. I can't describe it, but I know it when I hear it. It does have an old time kind of sound to it (James Brown-ish as Rami mentions), but mutated in a specific way that I can't figure out.

I do have an 8-track cassette tascam 688 midi studio along side my Roland VS2400 24 track, but while the 688 has 8 XLR inputs, it doesn't have any phantom power and I only have one stand-alone pre-amp, so tracking drums with overheads and stuff isn't an option now through that device. I have thought of doing that though many times. I can imagine tracking hot on the 688 might impart some cool sounds (not the traditional tape saturation folks talk about with R2R, but cool nonetheless) to the drums, although not at all sure it would get me close to "that" sound.