There are companies selling connect cables for DAWs/audio setups for $20,000 and up claiming that the copper is 02 free and all kinds of crazy claims. I remember reading years ago an opinion that you could use a coathanger to connect speakers for all it matters...no difference...so are these people trying to rip us off??? thx
high priced cables
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Mickster
Well-known member
Tell me you actually have any doubt that they're trying to rip us off. Come on......tell me........
Being 70yrso I was in at the start of the Great Interconnects Debacle. It started iirc in about the 80s and the magazine I subscribed to, Hi-Fi News rejected the whole "subjectivist" silliness for a long time. Then the rot started and I gave up all audio publications save a free gander now an again in Smiths just to see if sanity had returned. It has not.
In the intervening years there has never been a single, properly run double blind test published that showed "magic" speaker cable (say) was any different from bog standard mains lead.
Buy decently rugged cable (tho' you can use very thin foil screened stuff for "static" cables, e.g. to and from a patch bay, room ties. ) and quality connectors (but again, £5 a pop jacks are a total waste of money back of a rack)
Dave.
In the intervening years there has never been a single, properly run double blind test published that showed "magic" speaker cable (say) was any different from bog standard mains lead.
Buy decently rugged cable (tho' you can use very thin foil screened stuff for "static" cables, e.g. to and from a patch bay, room ties. ) and quality connectors (but again, £5 a pop jacks are a total waste of money back of a rack)
Dave.
Bobbsy
Boring Old Git
Yup. All those claims are complete and utter rubbish and the prices are total rip offs. They are NEVER properly blind tested and all the glowing reviews are by people either trying to sell to your or trying to justify the money they wasted by claiming they hear a difference. As soon as there's a blind test, there is NO audible difference.
If you want further evidence, be aware that the studios that recorded all those CDs and vinyl records that the audiophools use to test stuff are wired with cable that came on a 500 metre reel with connectors soldered on site.
That said, it is worth buying good cables. But my definition of good is quality connectors and nice handling quality for when you're coiling etc. This is not because it will sound better...but because it will be very reliable and last longer.
What I do suggest to everyone starting out is that they take a bit of time to learn soldering and build your own cables. You can buy a 100 metre reel of good quality cable and some connectors and do a bunch of custom cables for yourself. This way, all your interconnects are exactly the right length (i.e. a lot tidier) and you know the quality of the cable and connectors. XLRs, TRS and RCA connectors are really easy to solder with very little practice...and a soldering session is a good way to spend an afternoon with a mug or two of tea/coffee and your favourite radio station playing in the background.
If you want further evidence, be aware that the studios that recorded all those CDs and vinyl records that the audiophools use to test stuff are wired with cable that came on a 500 metre reel with connectors soldered on site.
That said, it is worth buying good cables. But my definition of good is quality connectors and nice handling quality for when you're coiling etc. This is not because it will sound better...but because it will be very reliable and last longer.
What I do suggest to everyone starting out is that they take a bit of time to learn soldering and build your own cables. You can buy a 100 metre reel of good quality cable and some connectors and do a bunch of custom cables for yourself. This way, all your interconnects are exactly the right length (i.e. a lot tidier) and you know the quality of the cable and connectors. XLRs, TRS and RCA connectors are really easy to solder with very little practice...and a soldering session is a good way to spend an afternoon with a mug or two of tea/coffee and your favourite radio station playing in the background.
rob aylestone
Moderator
When I walk into the BBC or a name studio I respect, and they have re-equipped with clever cable, I might believe something is happening, or perhaps when the AES or other respective organisation endorsed something I might wonder If I've been wrong all these years, but they never do. Quantifiable physics over snake oil any day. As they say in my part of the world - squit!
An another thing! To the best of my knowledge, if you buy a high end amplifier or pair of speakers, say the thick end of £10,000 they do NOT come with Audiophool cables at £500 a set?
Now, if the purveyors of such equipment REALLY believed in the enhanced qualities of such wires they would be doing their superb kit and the customer a grave disservice NOT to supply them. That they don't AFAIK, speaks volumes to me.
Dave.
Now, if the purveyors of such equipment REALLY believed in the enhanced qualities of such wires they would be doing their superb kit and the customer a grave disservice NOT to supply them. That they don't AFAIK, speaks volumes to me.
Dave.
Bobbsy
Boring Old Git
In the UK, the Advertising Standards Authority has ruled against a number of companies for making unsubstantiated claims for some of their stupidly expensive cables. Basically they were convicted of making false claims for their products. HERE'S the first ruling I found but there are a bunch of others. I particularly like the company trying to use the argument that, since any improvements were subjective, they didn't need to be provable. Sorry...you can prove subjective improvement in a proper blind test (and probably measure the differences).
Frankly I quite like the idea of audiophools being parted from their money but I guess it's good that the cable rip offs are being subjected to the same standards as other companies.
Frankly I quite like the idea of audiophools being parted from their money but I guess it's good that the cable rip offs are being subjected to the same standards as other companies.
I didn't know that, sounds like some actual progress being made (sort of a tightening 'due diligence.
Makes me think of Monty Python's 'Crunchy Frog candy'..
"Certainly you cook them first!?"
"But they wouldn't be crunchy then would they!.."
"But.. you have to tell people!"
"Sales would plummet! "
Treeline
New member
Yep. There's a sucker born every minute. The first problem with these claims is that so much energy goes into the asshat marketing that it is sickening. The second thing, is that electromagnetic radiation doesn't behave the way they claim, so the claims defy physics. Lack of oxygen is great if your objective is to eliminate copper oxydation. Wonderful. The same thing happens if you spray the copper with shellac.
The basic truth about high quality / low quality cables is this: Good, commercial grade cable and high quality, commercial/industrial grade connectors assembled with basic skill and average competence will yield a very, very high quality cable. The difference most people notice in cables of differing price brackets is that better quality cables are more reliable over time and tend not to fail from bad solder connections, faulty connectors or damage from day to day wear and tear. That's it.
Cheap cables may have other symptoms, but they all end up being some variety of the above. Poor shielding suggests subpar cable quality or poor construction.
So:
Next time you see the hype, remember who is selling you this stuff.
RESISTANCE IS FUTILE
The basic truth about high quality / low quality cables is this: Good, commercial grade cable and high quality, commercial/industrial grade connectors assembled with basic skill and average competence will yield a very, very high quality cable. The difference most people notice in cables of differing price brackets is that better quality cables are more reliable over time and tend not to fail from bad solder connections, faulty connectors or damage from day to day wear and tear. That's it.
Cheap cables may have other symptoms, but they all end up being some variety of the above. Poor shielding suggests subpar cable quality or poor construction.
So:
Next time you see the hype, remember who is selling you this stuff.
RESISTANCE IS FUTILE
Craig.reid
New member
cables make a huge difference. Grab a shit guitar cable, and listen to the noise and then grab a nice one and listen to how much more tone you still have at the end of it. Preferably a Mogami. They are the absolute tits.
So:
Next time you see the hype, remember who is selling you this stuff.
Good!
..Better
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sh0wr7HH8Y
Farview
Well-known member
That is true when you go between Radio Shack $3 for a 20 foot cable and a good guitar cable. But there is very little to no difference in signal quality between decent cables.
Tadpui
Well-known member
I simply don't buy into the name brand cable business. Mogami makes good cable, no doubt. But the quality doesn't justify the price. There are plenty of other brands of perfectly acceptable cable for a fraction of the price. Unless a cable is defective or poorly designed/constructed, there's not gonna be a detectable difference in the signal that passes through it.
Bobbsy's link above got me to looking, and I found a great forum thread (will have to look up the link again) for hi-fi audio that showed test after test where people were unable to consistently tell the difference between run-of-the-mill speaker cable and crazy super duper audiophool cable. The only cable where people could consistently tell the difference between low and high end cable was the power cable, which is surprising to me. I'm still skeptical of even that, blind and ABX testing be damned.
Bobbsy's link above got me to looking, and I found a great forum thread (will have to look up the link again) for hi-fi audio that showed test after test where people were unable to consistently tell the difference between run-of-the-mill speaker cable and crazy super duper audiophool cable. The only cable where people could consistently tell the difference between low and high end cable was the power cable, which is surprising to me. I'm still skeptical of even that, blind and ABX testing be damned.
First of all, no one AFAIK is talking about "shit" cables. I have bought some where there is very little screening*. I have also had "CAT 5e" cable with some wires OC. No, what we are talking about is DECENT cable with good quality connectors compared to stuff at 10 or more times the price.
A guitar is a special case. You are connecting a middling impedance device to a very high impedance and given half a chance, hum will be electrostatically coupled into the circuit (humbuckers can only "buck" electro MAGNETIC hum) so you need a good screen. But the screen on the vast majority of cables that are not of "shit" quality will be 95% complete and even if 100% it would make very little difference to the hum pickup unless you were in an extremely high hum field (and the pups would probably be the main hum source then anyway).
Capacitance, which is what causes HF loss is a measurable quality and can in any case only be reduced to a certain level NO MATTER WHAT CABLE YOU BUY! If cable puffs are a real bother? Get a buffer!
*Sounds like heresy I know but you can actually get away without a screen to a degree for line level signals an dynamic mics when you have balanced cables. Back in the day we ran 30 Ohm mics on twin twisted lighting flex. Never a bother with hum over many tens of metres. The problem today would be mainly RFI but I might make up some XLRs leads from mains cable and see how they perform!
Dave.
Bobbsy
Boring Old Git
Mogami make "good" cables. They'll work properly and last well. There are other manufacturers who also make decent cables...but these aren't what we're talking about here. There's a whole range of audiophile rubbish where extreme (and subjective) claims are made for very ordinary cables...which are on sale for vastly more than they're worth. As per the original post, some places are trying to charge $20,000 for a pair of short speaker cables. This isn't quality...this is fraud.
Bobbsy
Boring Old Git
You remind of back in the day ordering "music circuits" from British Telecom for broadcast use--this was their designation for audio lines that would be used to carry programme material, either for radio or to accompany video for TV.
BT used simple 2 wire twisted pairs--not balanced, not screened. What they DID do was use line driving amplifiers and insist that the interconnect was carefully impedance matched (600 ohms by memory). Working this way they fed audio for hundreds...and even thousands--of kilometers.
Ah, the old days before fibre. Nowadays broadcasters can feed super high quality anywhere--but use Skype instead.