D
Dot
New member
Can you post any recordings you've made in the room?
Erockrazor
I mix in (2x) real-time
danny.guitar said:
I think that is an excellent point and wish that was more the focus of half the people on home recording. I love everyone here I swear. But sometimes I feel like many people are gear sluts and are pushing the purchase of a new product rather than a new technique. Sorry MrFace but when I hear home recording I think budget recording and that's just what I relate to it. The majority of the people here looking for help are on normally on really tight budget and aren't as interested in that expensive auralex. Your point makes perfect sense I'm just being stubborn about agreeing. Yes Whitney Houston had a "home studio" but I don't recall any threads with Whitney Houston looking for any help.
As for Pezking, make a more "professional" recording using what you have. Move the mic's around. Go record the drums in some big room. Get the vocals dry and add a nice reverb. Tell them to play their part better until they get it. You can definitely improve your recordings without spending an arm and a leg. Not to say that you wouldn't do better renting those new things ... but I am trying to say that you can (99%) probably do better without renting those things as well.
I wish you the best of luck upon recording of your buddies. Take your time and you'll get some good results. Eric.
R
Robert D
New member
U87 and Nady preamp? hmmm....
Ok, here's my take on this. First, when you say they want "very high quality", I think you need to be realistic and upfront. High end mics are only one element of a high end recording, and you are missing some key elements. That doesn't mean you can't make a good record for them, but "very high quality" comes from very expensive facilities and very expensive gear run by real professionals. Don't get me wrong, I'm no snob. I just think you need to keep it real and set the expectations based on your reality.
As far as the mics, I don't think it's as easy as saying high end mics will make things worse. Many lower end mics have hyped responses that could exaggerate a problem frequency in a given room. A boxy sounding mic in a boxy sounding room, you get boxy squared. It is concievable though that, and this is always true, that you could put up a high end mic and it not be the right mic, and then replace it with a lower end mic and have it be better. This can even be true in a "real" studio. So, I'd say rent the mics, but don't lock your mics away, and don't hesitate to use them if that's what gets the right sound. Any AE can tell you stories of how they got the right sound with the "wrong" mic.
I'd seriously consider adding one high end pre to the rental list so that you have one gold channel to work with, at least up to the converter. Also, consider using something like an SE Reflexion filter with that U87. And do what you can to get the most out of the space you have to work with, breaking up any flat surfaces with a combination of absorptive and diffusive materials.
Good luck.
Ok, here's my take on this. First, when you say they want "very high quality", I think you need to be realistic and upfront. High end mics are only one element of a high end recording, and you are missing some key elements. That doesn't mean you can't make a good record for them, but "very high quality" comes from very expensive facilities and very expensive gear run by real professionals. Don't get me wrong, I'm no snob. I just think you need to keep it real and set the expectations based on your reality.
As far as the mics, I don't think it's as easy as saying high end mics will make things worse. Many lower end mics have hyped responses that could exaggerate a problem frequency in a given room. A boxy sounding mic in a boxy sounding room, you get boxy squared. It is concievable though that, and this is always true, that you could put up a high end mic and it not be the right mic, and then replace it with a lower end mic and have it be better. This can even be true in a "real" studio. So, I'd say rent the mics, but don't lock your mics away, and don't hesitate to use them if that's what gets the right sound. Any AE can tell you stories of how they got the right sound with the "wrong" mic.
I'd seriously consider adding one high end pre to the rental list so that you have one gold channel to work with, at least up to the converter. Also, consider using something like an SE Reflexion filter with that U87. And do what you can to get the most out of the space you have to work with, breaking up any flat surfaces with a combination of absorptive and diffusive materials.
Good luck.
D
danny.guitar
Guest
mrface2112 said:
I was just saying, home recording for A LOT of people is not high quality gear and professional room treatment. Obviously everyone should try and improve their recording situation but most people can't afford all that stuff.
I was just saying it'd be cool to hear more about how to get by with less.
H
Harvey Gerst
New member
The answer is pretty simple:danny.guitar said:
If you're recording in a shitty room, GET RID OF THE ROOM!!
That means deaden the hell out of the room to eliminate as many reflections and resonances as possible. You can add back decent reverberation later, but at least you'll start with a clean recording.
Finally, learn how to use the equipment you already have, and how to operate it within its limitations.
Yes, the term "home recording" gets bandied about too frequently and can mean different things to different people, but what you really wanna learn is "decent recording", not "home recording". You wanna be able to get a decent recording anywhere, with almost any equipment.
To get "decent recordings", learn how to eliminate the bad stuff from creeping in, and learn how to properly use whatever you have to work with.
It's really that simple.
TexRoadkill
Audio Bum
danny.guitar said:
Find a better room or close mic everything.
X
XLR
______
Yes - on acoustic gtr. It made a big difference. They were flat-response hypercardioids. Was still limited to close miking due to the room but the narrow pattern kept out most of the room sound.pezking said:
BTW pezking, how high is your room's ceiling?
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G
Good Friend
New member
hell recording
Hey look, im going to be honest with you. Recording sucks. Especially home recording. Please note that i didnt say "recordings suck" or "home recordings cant sound good", cause thats not what im saying. Im saying that home recording and recording of any kind blows. Its 99 percent bullshit that has little or nothing to do with actually being a musician or artist. My recordings sound like ass and i am a phenomenal artist with amazing vision. Why? How is it possible? Because in recording there are factors that will ruin your best efforts. As if it wasnt hard enough to learn how to write and sing and play and all that shit, your vocals will sound like ass in the mix just because the "room" is picked up in the mic. Or maybe you used the wrong mics on the backing tracks. Or any number of factors that have almost nothing to do with your artistic intent. Recording is FILLED with pitfalls that you never realize until you fall in them. And its unfortunate that your genius has to be lessened over something as ridiculous as an untreated room, or not having a 2000 dollar preamp that "suits" the mic you are using. I am not bashing home recordists or the "art" of recording. Im just telling you that its a rat race of money, "expectations", trends, and much time wasted chasing impossible things that lead you back around to needing more money again and again. There simply is no easy solution and there is no substitute for a real recording studio with people who specialize in recording. Because those people have experience and there is no substitute for experience. Experience allows you to make records sound good in almost any environment with any limitations. But for someone to just start up a home setup with a couple hundred bucks and hope to gain the kind of experience youd get working at a real studio in controlled environment on different types of projects for years is practically impossible. Cause the environment ISNT controlled. And many problems cant be forseen or even prevented. So what does that leave the home recordist? Well ill give you my opinion which some may disagree with. Home recordists should strive for quality within the limitations of their particular setup. Meaning, try everything. Record guitars with every type of mic you have and from all kinds of angles. Figure out what happy "accidents" you DO have working for you. Then use those. And its a bitch to have limitations. But its better to get useable results than to strive for the impossible.
I personally read much of what advice people give on these forums but i always take it as it comes. No one method works for everyone mostly because projects differ in artistic vision. And environments and conditions are varied. There are some on here who work in a pro studio and get really hifi detailed drum sounds that i could never ever get in my room. But i hate hifi pro drum sounds so i dont let it get to me. Your best bet is just to experiment endlessly with your existing equipment and find what works and what doesnt, not what SHOULD work. Cause it ALL should work but thats not the reality of acoustics and microphones. Use your ears and try the best you can to find creative ways to get a controlled drum sound. Keep the fucking ride cymbal under control and all cymbals for that matter. The drums are usually the lamest sounding part of amateur recordings because they are loudest and most uneven and always excite the ugly sounding room more than say an acoustic guitar. I can just hear the description of your room and know exactly how your drum tracks are going to sound with all those condensors up. Good luck just use your ears and never be afraid to try unconventional ways to get better results than you are getting with a technique that SHOULD work. Dont be afraid to pull things back a little. And dont let the dumbass band members tell you how to do things cause they are proabbly going to get in there and start whining about how they have to do it this way or that way but if they are true musicians and if they truly care about how the end product will sound they are going to have to work with you and meet the limitations of your setup halfway.
Oh yeah and get the drums and bass to sound good enough by themselves that nothing else is needed for a good listening experience. The feel should never falter even for a second. If you can get those down the rest is much easier.
Hey look, im going to be honest with you. Recording sucks. Especially home recording. Please note that i didnt say "recordings suck" or "home recordings cant sound good", cause thats not what im saying. Im saying that home recording and recording of any kind blows. Its 99 percent bullshit that has little or nothing to do with actually being a musician or artist. My recordings sound like ass and i am a phenomenal artist with amazing vision. Why? How is it possible? Because in recording there are factors that will ruin your best efforts. As if it wasnt hard enough to learn how to write and sing and play and all that shit, your vocals will sound like ass in the mix just because the "room" is picked up in the mic. Or maybe you used the wrong mics on the backing tracks. Or any number of factors that have almost nothing to do with your artistic intent. Recording is FILLED with pitfalls that you never realize until you fall in them. And its unfortunate that your genius has to be lessened over something as ridiculous as an untreated room, or not having a 2000 dollar preamp that "suits" the mic you are using. I am not bashing home recordists or the "art" of recording. Im just telling you that its a rat race of money, "expectations", trends, and much time wasted chasing impossible things that lead you back around to needing more money again and again. There simply is no easy solution and there is no substitute for a real recording studio with people who specialize in recording. Because those people have experience and there is no substitute for experience. Experience allows you to make records sound good in almost any environment with any limitations. But for someone to just start up a home setup with a couple hundred bucks and hope to gain the kind of experience youd get working at a real studio in controlled environment on different types of projects for years is practically impossible. Cause the environment ISNT controlled. And many problems cant be forseen or even prevented. So what does that leave the home recordist? Well ill give you my opinion which some may disagree with. Home recordists should strive for quality within the limitations of their particular setup. Meaning, try everything. Record guitars with every type of mic you have and from all kinds of angles. Figure out what happy "accidents" you DO have working for you. Then use those. And its a bitch to have limitations. But its better to get useable results than to strive for the impossible.
I personally read much of what advice people give on these forums but i always take it as it comes. No one method works for everyone mostly because projects differ in artistic vision. And environments and conditions are varied. There are some on here who work in a pro studio and get really hifi detailed drum sounds that i could never ever get in my room. But i hate hifi pro drum sounds so i dont let it get to me. Your best bet is just to experiment endlessly with your existing equipment and find what works and what doesnt, not what SHOULD work. Cause it ALL should work but thats not the reality of acoustics and microphones. Use your ears and try the best you can to find creative ways to get a controlled drum sound. Keep the fucking ride cymbal under control and all cymbals for that matter. The drums are usually the lamest sounding part of amateur recordings because they are loudest and most uneven and always excite the ugly sounding room more than say an acoustic guitar. I can just hear the description of your room and know exactly how your drum tracks are going to sound with all those condensors up. Good luck just use your ears and never be afraid to try unconventional ways to get better results than you are getting with a technique that SHOULD work. Dont be afraid to pull things back a little. And dont let the dumbass band members tell you how to do things cause they are proabbly going to get in there and start whining about how they have to do it this way or that way but if they are true musicians and if they truly care about how the end product will sound they are going to have to work with you and meet the limitations of your setup halfway.
Oh yeah and get the drums and bass to sound good enough by themselves that nothing else is needed for a good listening experience. The feel should never falter even for a second. If you can get those down the rest is much easier.
mshilarious
Banned
Good Friend said:
Best post EVER! PS you should put the quotes around "happy accidents" like that, because it's a Bob Ross quote
E
elementary
New member
Usually, in my opinion, snare and vocals suffer most in a crap room, so look into getting some snare samples and a drum replacer plug in (you can find loads free on the internet) and make some sort of vocal booth by hanging thick blankets off mic stands and putting mattresses against the walls etc. A great snare played by a great player in a crap room normally sounds a bit duff.
dkelley
Active member
Good Friend said:
WHAT?????!?!?!? NOOOOOW you tell me!?!??? AFTER ALL I'VE SPENT... ALL THE TIME WASTED... well hell, it was fun anyway. But man, that music career of mine just pisses me off now that I find out, after all this work, that "recording sucks."
Please, you could have let me know a few years ago, I'm broke now from it!
In all seriousness man, that's a funny post, and sort of useful too. Mostly just funny though to me, I liked it! keep it up!
Cheers,
Don
P
pezking
New member
It's good to see I've set a debate going - and it just goes to show that everyone has their own techniques, tips and preferences which I think is excellent.
I'm not home right now so I can't post a recording but I will when I'm back - probably Friday. I'll also try to record the impulse response.
The ceiling is maybe 9ft high - I'll have a better idea again, when I'm home.
Using hypercardioids in my room would make sense as their ratio of direct to indirect sound is highest (being 2:1 vs. cardioid at 1.7:1 and Omni obviously at 1:1) meaning they'd pick up the least room noise.
I think I'll take the knowledge and guidance expressed on here and explain it to the band, and leave it up to them whether or not we rent the mics. If I do rent the mics, as mentioned, I can still revert to using my mics, or a combination of mics. The tip of renting a decent pre is also noted.
If I do rent the mics, I'll certainly post a link to the results so they can be compared to results with my mics.
Thanks again for the continued tips.
I'm not home right now so I can't post a recording but I will when I'm back - probably Friday. I'll also try to record the impulse response.
The ceiling is maybe 9ft high - I'll have a better idea again, when I'm home.
Using hypercardioids in my room would make sense as their ratio of direct to indirect sound is highest (being 2:1 vs. cardioid at 1.7:1 and Omni obviously at 1:1) meaning they'd pick up the least room noise.
I think I'll take the knowledge and guidance expressed on here and explain it to the band, and leave it up to them whether or not we rent the mics. If I do rent the mics, as mentioned, I can still revert to using my mics, or a combination of mics. The tip of renting a decent pre is also noted.
If I do rent the mics, I'll certainly post a link to the results so they can be compared to results with my mics.
Thanks again for the continued tips.
C
cello_pudding
Well-known member
i got some -rep....
it says..."again, you're a dummy."
there is no argument. i've heard a good mic in a crappy room. it is awful...standing waves just killed the sound.
that is...unless you think an akg c3000b is junk compared to a mxl990. and i recorded in a crappy room with a neumann...forget what the exact name was...tlm 147 by looks...but same thing, i used it in a non-iso and standing waves killed the thing. i've heard both of these mics do very well in good rooms on the same voice.
no? then shut up and stay in your corner.
i never said he had a crappy room...
i'm guessing it was good friend.
it says..."again, you're a dummy."
there is no argument. i've heard a good mic in a crappy room. it is awful...standing waves just killed the sound.
that is...unless you think an akg c3000b is junk compared to a mxl990. and i recorded in a crappy room with a neumann...forget what the exact name was...tlm 147 by looks...but same thing, i used it in a non-iso and standing waves killed the thing. i've heard both of these mics do very well in good rooms on the same voice.
no? then shut up and stay in your corner.
i never said he had a crappy room...
i'm guessing it was good friend.
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C
cello_pudding
Well-known member
good friend: self proclaimed genius
Erockrazor
I mix in (2x) real-time
Good luck Pezking, I hope the session goes well. 
chrisharris
King of Bling
yeah, good luck. Close mic everything.
apl
Stand Up Comity
My room treatment, which is installed with push pins (except for the clouds, those are with Command adhesive hooks), is the most effective $150 I've spent on anything to do with recording.
antichef
pornk rock
Nice pictures!! Do you have a narrative (describing the materials) for this anywhere? I'm following this thread with interest.apl said:
It's about as likely that I'll host the Emmys as it is that someone will ever pay me to record in my house, but I can dream.
apl
Stand Up Comity
Caotico
for all the right reasons
Hey! Thanks for that info. I hear people mention treating rooms, and I've searched this forum for room treatment stuff. Somehow I never saw the "Studio Building and Display" section. Push-pins! I could probably get away with that in my apartment. Maybe I'll be making some improvements around here.apl said: